Comments on: MMO Subscriptions vs. Free to Play http://forge.ironrealms.com/2008/10/04/mmo-subscriptions-vs-free-to-play/ A blog on virtual worlds, games, and digital content, from Matt Mihaly Tue, 06 Jan 2009 02:10:46 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.0.3 by: Top Gamer Blog » Archive » GameSetLinkDump: Acting, Faces, Groovy http://forge.ironrealms.com/2008/10/04/mmo-subscriptions-vs-free-to-play/#comment-85171 Tue, 21 Oct 2008 00:09:07 +0000 http://forge.ironrealms.com/2008/10/04/mmo-subscriptions-vs-free-to-play/#comment-85171 [...] The Forge · MMO Subscriptions vs. Free to Play This is ankle-deep in an ongoing discussion, but Matt Mihaly has lots of good points, so what the hey. [...] […] The Forge · MMO Subscriptions vs. Free to Play This is ankle-deep in an ongoing discussion, but Matt Mihaly has lots of good points, so what the hey. […]

]]> by: Azor http://forge.ironrealms.com/2008/10/04/mmo-subscriptions-vs-free-to-play/#comment-84933 Sat, 18 Oct 2008 07:35:10 +0000 http://forge.ironrealms.com/2008/10/04/mmo-subscriptions-vs-free-to-play/#comment-84933 I'm continually flabbergasted at the amount people are willing to pay to be among the most powerful combatants in Achaea, both in terms of time and money. It's funny that the goals I personally enjoy pursuing in the game cost nothing, while those who want to pursue combat end up paying through the nose. I’m continually flabbergasted at the amount people are willing to pay to be among the most powerful combatants in Achaea, both in terms of time and money. It’s funny that the goals I personally enjoy pursuing in the game cost nothing, while those who want to pursue combat end up paying through the nose.

]]> by: Playing together, business panel — frans goes blog http://forge.ironrealms.com/2008/10/04/mmo-subscriptions-vs-free-to-play/#comment-83938 Wed, 08 Oct 2008 13:23:30 +0000 http://forge.ironrealms.com/2008/10/04/mmo-subscriptions-vs-free-to-play/#comment-83938 [...] More information at e.g.: http://jussilaakkonen.wordpress.com/ also: http://forge.ironrealms.com/2008/10/04/mmo-subscriptions-vs-free-to-play/ http://kotaku.com/350895/blizzard-loots-12-billion-from-2007-thanks-to-wow http://www.vivendi.com/corp/en/press_2008/documents/20080130_Vivendi_Revenues_For_2007.pdf [...] […] More information at e.g.: http://jussilaakkonen.wordpress.com/ also: http://forge.ironrealms.com/2008/10/04/mmo-subscriptions-vs-free-to-play/ http://kotaku.com/350895/blizzard-loots-12-billion-from-2007-thanks-to-wow http://www.vivendi.com/corp/en/press_2008/documents/20080130_Vivendi_Revenues_For_2007.pdf […]

]]> by: Brett http://forge.ironrealms.com/2008/10/04/mmo-subscriptions-vs-free-to-play/#comment-83839 Tue, 07 Oct 2008 09:38:25 +0000 http://forge.ironrealms.com/2008/10/04/mmo-subscriptions-vs-free-to-play/#comment-83839 Reply to Matt: To be honest, I am sometimes surprised its viable at all, but yeah. I definitely see your point there. Reply to Matt:

To be honest, I am sometimes surprised its viable at all, but yeah. I definitely see your point there.

]]> by: Akiba http://forge.ironrealms.com/2008/10/04/mmo-subscriptions-vs-free-to-play/#comment-83771 Mon, 06 Oct 2008 15:35:37 +0000 http://forge.ironrealms.com/2008/10/04/mmo-subscriptions-vs-free-to-play/#comment-83771 Hi Matt, Interesting post. I can't help but see the parallels with the famous software pricing blog from Joel Spolsky: http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/CamelsandRubberDuckies.html More food for thought on the same line and a fun read too. -Akiba Hi Matt,

Interesting post. I can’t help but see the parallels with the famous software pricing blog from Joel Spolsky:

http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/CamelsandRubberDuckies.html

More food for thought on the same line and a fun read too.

-Akiba

]]> by: Irune http://forge.ironrealms.com/2008/10/04/mmo-subscriptions-vs-free-to-play/#comment-83754 Mon, 06 Oct 2008 10:52:23 +0000 http://forge.ironrealms.com/2008/10/04/mmo-subscriptions-vs-free-to-play/#comment-83754 Puzzle pirates free oceans are bad enough and it's not really troll territory (very few ways of actually making somebody else's life miserable, no "world wide" speaking channels, no blood and gore, and you can set it so people you don't know cannot whisper you). So even if 7 years old kids and trolls exist in greater amounts than in subscription oceans, they cannot annoy you. If for example WoW went pay per perks I would be running away faster than light. I cannot play anything seriously when there's no entry barrier and no way of protecting me from disruptive users that think that the game is free so anything goes. It's already bad enough now with a subscription... Only thing that saves IRE from having the same problem is the way the players (and Gods) police the trouble players, but I understand I cannot expect that level of service from a game with millions of players. Puzzle pirates free oceans are bad enough and it’s not really troll territory (very few ways of actually making somebody else’s life miserable, no “world wide” speaking channels, no blood and gore, and you can set it so people you don’t know cannot whisper you). So even if 7 years old kids and trolls exist in greater amounts than in subscription oceans, they cannot annoy you.

If for example WoW went pay per perks I would be running away faster than light. I cannot play anything seriously when there’s no entry barrier and no way of protecting me from disruptive users that think that the game is free so anything goes. It’s already bad enough now with a subscription…

Only thing that saves IRE from having the same problem is the way the players (and Gods) police the trouble players, but I understand I cannot expect that level of service from a game with millions of players.

]]> by: Matt http://forge.ironrealms.com/2008/10/04/mmo-subscriptions-vs-free-to-play/#comment-83707 Mon, 06 Oct 2008 01:10:39 +0000 http://forge.ironrealms.com/2008/10/04/mmo-subscriptions-vs-free-to-play/#comment-83707 Aetolia wouldn't even be a financially viable game with a mandatory subscription, to be honest. Aetolia wouldn’t even be a financially viable game with a mandatory subscription, to be honest.

]]> by: Brett http://forge.ironrealms.com/2008/10/04/mmo-subscriptions-vs-free-to-play/#comment-83706 Mon, 06 Oct 2008 00:17:34 +0000 http://forge.ironrealms.com/2008/10/04/mmo-subscriptions-vs-free-to-play/#comment-83706 Hi Matt Its funny, but just a few days ago I found myself wishing Aetolia was subscription based. Not for myself so much, but just out of coincidence I'd noticed a couple of new players to the game that I was enjoying have around, growing more and more frustrated with their 'size in comparison to the others around them, and I can see them drifting out of the game in the end. This is not to say I think the game would be better if it was subscription based. Even purely from a player perspective there are advantages to both (such as taking your character more seriously over the long term when you've invested in that single character). Its just a shame there isn't some third model that can take the benefits of both payment models - its frustrating as an org-leader to see players drift off like that. Its already a challenge to try and 'win' newbies from the other guilds as it is. -Brett Hi Matt
Its funny, but just a few days ago I found myself wishing Aetolia was subscription based. Not for myself so much, but just out of coincidence I’d noticed a couple of new players to the game that I was enjoying have around, growing more and more frustrated with their ’size in comparison to the others around them, and I can see them drifting out of the game in the end.

This is not to say I think the game would be better if it was subscription based. Even purely from a player perspective there are advantages to both (such as taking your character more seriously over the long term when you’ve invested in that single character).

Its just a shame there isn’t some third model that can take the benefits of both payment models - its frustrating as an org-leader to see players drift off like that. Its already a challenge to try and ‘win’ newbies from the other guilds as it is.

-Brett

]]> by: Matt http://forge.ironrealms.com/2008/10/04/mmo-subscriptions-vs-free-to-play/#comment-83669 Sun, 05 Oct 2008 17:27:40 +0000 http://forge.ironrealms.com/2008/10/04/mmo-subscriptions-vs-free-to-play/#comment-83669 Some of the CCGs have ARPUs in the $50+ range. --matt Some of the CCGs have ARPUs in the $50+ range.

–matt

]]> by: Steven Davis http://forge.ironrealms.com/2008/10/04/mmo-subscriptions-vs-free-to-play/#comment-83660 Sun, 05 Oct 2008 14:08:20 +0000 http://forge.ironrealms.com/2008/10/04/mmo-subscriptions-vs-free-to-play/#comment-83660 @Jussi - The key to World of Warcraft vs. Habbo vs. Iron Realms vs. Puzzle Pirates is risk. The combination of 5 years and $50 M is very risky. They could have been wrong. If Habbo had gone up in flames... 3-5 guys waste more time in a garage trying to be the next big band. Also, the break-even costs for Habbo or Iron Realms are much lower and the ROI potentially much better. As Matt said, there are a lot of ways to slice this. As I noted over at Raph's site, the fairly recent figure from Runescape that implies a 12 percent conversion rate is interesting, if true. The "Health Club Membership" effect can work really well for subscription games - much better than for a F2P. After all, the "perfect" customer is one who keeps paying, but doesn't consume any resources. It would also be interesting to get a better handle on games like Magic Online and some of the other Collectible Card Games out there in terms of ARPU and such. Some of the numbers I saw in that area were really high. It would also be good to look at metrics that normalized between F2P and subscriptions... not that many people provide useful data (which has hurt the industry as a whole and hasn't really helped the individual firms). @Jussi -

The key to World of Warcraft vs. Habbo vs. Iron Realms vs. Puzzle Pirates is risk. The combination of 5 years and $50 M is very risky. They could have been wrong. If Habbo had gone up in flames… 3-5 guys waste more time in a garage trying to be the next big band.

Also, the break-even costs for Habbo or Iron Realms are much lower and the ROI potentially much better.

As Matt said, there are a lot of ways to slice this. As I noted over at Raph’s site, the fairly recent figure from Runescape that implies a 12 percent conversion rate is interesting, if true. The “Health Club Membership” effect can work really well for subscription games - much better than for a F2P.

After all, the “perfect” customer is one who keeps paying, but doesn’t consume any resources.

It would also be interesting to get a better handle on games like Magic Online and some of the other Collectible Card Games out there in terms of ARPU and such. Some of the numbers I saw in that area were really high.

It would also be good to look at metrics that normalized between F2P and subscriptions… not that many people provide useful data (which has hurt the industry as a whole and hasn’t really helped the individual firms).

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