Comments on: Bioshock Final Comments

by: Andrew Crystall

Thu, 06 Sep 2007 12:38:51 +0000

Michael - It’s unrelated to visuals for me. What makes it art afaik is Pathos. You can really feel the story of TNO in Planescape Torment..

by: Michael Chui

Thu, 06 Sep 2007 02:59:27 +0000

Yeah. I watched a friend of a friend (and many other people besides) play BioShock while I was at PAX. It got boring for me about 10-15 minutes in; I’m sure actually holding the controller would have helped.

And as for this so-called “games as art” debate… ugh. I love how people think a game is art because it has an uncanny resemblance to a movie. Mario 64 was better art than this.

by: Matt

Wed, 05 Sep 2007 03:56:34 +0000

Matt Franklin wrote:

There’s still a large gulf between creating an environment with atmosphere, and making something pretty. I’d say it’s about as wide as the gulf between Bioshock and Aquanox. Of course, I am a sucker for visual atmosphere, even if not at the AAA level– Knytt is a favorite.

Sure, fair enough. It just doesn’t play all that greatly into how much I enjoy a game beyond the first hour or so.

–matt

by: Matt Franklin

Wed, 05 Sep 2007 02:09:45 +0000

There’s still a large gulf between creating an environment with atmosphere, and making something pretty. I’d say it’s about as wide as the gulf between Bioshock and Aquanox. Of course, I am a sucker for visual atmosphere, even if not at the AAA level– Knytt is a favorite.

Regarding reviews: yes, primary reviewers at most major game publications do actually play the games all the way through. It’s a requirement, and they’re generally an honest bunch. (”Second opinions” and other such mini-reviews aren’t always given by people who’ve played all the way through.)

There are two big reasons reviewers won’t always disagree with you. One is the obvious. The other is the way in which they play games: they play a lot more than you do, and typically in very concentrated bursts. Most people do not have to play all the way through (horrible game X). Most people do not play all the way through (20 hour game Y) in 2 days for a deadline. It changes one’s tastes.

by: Brent Michael Krupp

Tue, 04 Sep 2007 23:56:21 +0000

Thank goodness for this review! I tried the demo and *really* didn’t like it but I thought it was just me. I guess it’s just you and me, or something. =/

by: Matt

Tue, 04 Sep 2007 22:42:43 +0000

Well, I mean, that\’s what it is to me as a player. The visuals largely stop mattering much to me once I get into the game. I\’ve made text MUDs for the last 10 years, remember. I didn\’t find the level flow to be particularly good either, though the sound was nice.

by: Matt Franklin

Tue, 04 Sep 2007 21:42:09 +0000

It’s unfair to trivialize fantastic presentation– incorporating advanced graphics technology, coherent art direction, integrated sound design, environment-appropriate action, smoothly flowing level design, and dozens of other major components– by calling it “pretty”.

by: Scott Chipman

Tue, 04 Sep 2007 17:32:25 +0000

Graphically it was very impressive but I think its forbears (System Shock 2 and Deus Ex) did a much better job. You had alot more control over the RPG elements of your player and the hacking/security stuff was alot more fun. Another let down to me was the water. Initially in the demo the water had a huge impact on the environment (especially that part when the plane smashes into the walkway and everything floods.) I had expected this level of volatile flooding and danger throughout the game but was sadly disappointed. The water more or less just becomes a set piece and nothing more. Also why the hell was there no swimming? You would think at least one area of Rapture would have water higher than waist-deep!
-Scott

by: Matt

Tue, 04 Sep 2007 15:59:30 +0000

I’m happy to consider games art actually. I just think they’re pretty much universally bad art, whether they’re good craft or not.

–matt

by: Andrew Crystall

Tue, 04 Sep 2007 12:34:43 +0000

Oops, hit submit too soon..

Anyway, as for “games as art”, I don’t think many are (yet). The one I still hold up as the shining example is Planescape: Torment…