I haven’t posted much about Earth Eternal here lately (ok, I haven’t posted all that much lately period) as I don’t want my blog to turn into a promotional device but I think the occasional post is alright. So in that spirit, I wanted to note that we released screenshots of males and females for all our 16 player races late last week.
The feedback we’ve gotten on them has been interesting. In the comments to the article Kotaku did about them, for instance, the screenshots were ripped to pieces and the comments basically turned into people alternatively bashing and defending furries (mainly bashing them). That’s hardly unexpected given the famously harsh Kotaku crowd though. On the other hand, we’ve shown the screenshots to a selection of somewhat random people ranging from 5 year olds to grandmothers, some of whom play games and some of whom don’t, and the reaction has been literally universally positive. Some of that positive reaction can be discounted based on the fact that social etiquette tends to discourage people from telling us they hate something we’ve done to our faces but many of the reactions appeared genuinely enthusiastic. (If only we had the resources to do the kind of user testing Microsoft provides for Bungie…go read this article in Wired about it. Their testing system is awesome.)
What’s kind of interesting about working with anthropomorphized animal characters is that some people see cute and accessible and others see furry, with the subtext being freakish and sick. None of us on the team are into the furry thing and we chose to do anthro characters partly to stand out from the humans/dwarves/elves crowd some and partly because we think humanoid animals are a theme that has a fairly wide appeal. Of course, it’s always possible that we’re right but executing on it poorly such that it won’t matter that we’re right. Or we could just be wrong. I don’t think we are though.
As an aside I’ll also mention that though I’ve not really had any experience with furry culture before announcing EE I’ve got a fair amount of empathy for them now. The hate speech people direct against them is often nearly identical to that which is directed against the gay/lesbian/bisexual/transgender community and it makes me a little ill and a lot disgusted to read it or hear it. It’s going to be a challenge to come to a policy regarding what I’d consider to be hate speech directed against the furry community and do so in such a way that doesn’t alienate the non-furry players (who will be in the great majority I’m sure) by backing a “sick fetish” (not my words, but a common sentiment among online gamers, sadly).
My preference would be to be as intolerant of hate speech directed at the furry community as we will be regarding racial, sexual, or sexual-preference hate speech but on a practical level I’m unsure if we can do this. From what I’ve seen, many people who are not about to direct hateful statements at hispanics or lesbians have no problem doing the same to furries and I’m not sure we can afford to crack down on it the same way we would on most hate speech. It’ll be a challenge to manage, in any case.

27 comments
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September 2nd, 2007 at 10:02 pm
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August 27th, 2007 at 11:52 pm
Azor
I don’t understand the animus against furries. They aren’t hurting anyone; why should anyone care about their consensual sex practices? At the same time, I agree that it’ll be a challenge for EE not to turn into a furry vs. anti-furry warzone.
You need to have hate speech rules that include furries, but you also need to have clear rules against erotic chat/behavior (to the extent that that’s possible) in public places.
August 27th, 2007 at 11:58 pm
Matt
Well, we will certainly have rules against sexual chat/behavior in public areas but you know, a lot of furries would be offended by your statement because it presumes that furry-dom is inherently sexual. I thought that too actually but it turns out that a lot of furries are not interested in the sexual side.
–matt
August 28th, 2007 at 1:07 am
Azaroth
Matt, I wouldn’t be all too concerned with any harsh criticism you see on sites filled with hardcore gaming nerds. On that same note, I think appealing to non-traditional MMO markets (which is also likely the largest market, and a largely untapped market to some extent) by being accessible and inviting is always a smart move.
As far as the furry thing, I do notice that the internet seems to be bristling with hate toward these people. From what I understand about them, they’re consenting adults roleplaying a fantasy about anthropomorphic beings. I suppose what I don’t understand is what’s so shocking, compared to a lot of the things that people do.
What I do understand is that people are sheep and will jump directly upon a bandwagon given half a chance - and that criticizing others can be the quickest way to an easy shot of self esteem for some people that lack it. Hey, combine the two and you’ve got… a lot of human history.
August 28th, 2007 at 2:33 am
Iruen
The link to “In the comments to the article Kotaku did about them,” isn’t working well, I think it has some typo
August 28th, 2007 at 5:04 am
Rich Bryant
I think i can understand the hate against furries. I find the whole thing just depressingly stupid, personally. Count in a strong belief that people like fluffy animals for no better reason than that they know nothing about them except TV, cartoons and plush toys.
Nature is a brutal thing. It’s not nice. Being a wolf is not noble and being a cat is not sexy. Only humans could ever be retarded enough to think otherwise.
August 28th, 2007 at 9:16 am
Riv
Iruen, if you’ll remove the origin tag when you click on the link… (http://forge.ironrealms.com/%5C%22) that part, you’ll get there alright. Couldn’t find the wired page though.
August 28th, 2007 at 9:19 am
Matt
Sorry about that guys. Not sure what happened to the links. They are fixed now.
–matt
August 28th, 2007 at 9:42 am
Loredena
I am bothered by the hateful comments, and agree that they tend to be of a piece with that directed at other minority groups. I too find the concept of furries quite disturbing, and it is most definitely due to the sexual aspects. I realize not all furries fall on the sexual end of things, but for those that do, it evokes bestiality, which crosses a line for me. I consider myself fairly open-minded, but that just squicks me out. So, whilst I would not throw hateful comments at someone, I also would rather not know that someone I am speaking with is part of that subculture. a conundrum.
It’s not like other MMOs don’t have anthropomized races (see Kerra for instance) so I think part of the trick will be in having them not look sexualized.
August 28th, 2007 at 2:56 pm
Ronald Watts
Holy crap in a hat. It never ceases to amaze me how much people act like arses online. But then, it makes me laugh a little as well, cause it reminds me of the first time someone actually called me ‘noob’.
I hope that I’ll be able to get Broadband soon so that I can play EE. Damn Telstra for screwing around.
But anyway, those screenshots look pretty cool. Great job so far!
August 28th, 2007 at 2:59 pm
Steven "PlayNoEvil" Davis
Matt -
As Azaroth noted, if this game is targeted at “the entire family” I don’t think you’ll have a problem (which would be great, by the way). If you are doing so, I think you should start pitching things more that way.
Talk to me about COPPA offline, though.
And, you can sell plush toys, action figures comic books, and cartoon series oh my.
I also think it is great that you are not doing Yet Another Elf/Dwarf/Hobbit Game.
And all of the Kotaku characters will wail appropriately when you sell out to Disney for X hundred million dollars.
Steve
August 28th, 2007 at 3:10 pm
Matt
Yeah, it’s definitely targeted at the whole family though I realize that I’ve ended up evolving our back story into a bit more of a hardcore proposition than perhaps I should have. Ahh well, 95% of players won’t read it anyway.
August 28th, 2007 at 3:21 pm
Steven "PlayNoEvil" Davis
You need to turn the history into a children’s book.
By the way, if you go down this route, I think you have the potential for a monster, monster success!
I’ll admit I thought you were just providing an alternate look for the traditional MMO crowd. Plus, your existing games aren’t exactly known for being something for “the entire family”.
You are tapping into one of the most important trends in online gaming - good luck!
August 28th, 2007 at 3:23 pm
Matt
Oh no, definitely not targeting the traditional MMO crowd. I expect we’ll get some of them but they’re not the target. I wouldn’t have gone for such a ‘cutesy’ look if that were the case I think.
Thanks for the well-wishing!
–matt
August 28th, 2007 at 5:22 pm
Brian 'Psychochild' Green
Wait, Americans have hangups about sex and lash out at something they perceive as sexually perverse (that is, something not (over-)represented in porn)? I’m shocked, shocked I tell you!
I think the best explanation comes from the classic geek hierarchy chart. Note that furries are at the bottom, so everyone who has any sort of self-esteem problems usually feels free to pick on furries to make themselves feel better. “I may be a Pokémon fan over the age of 6, but at least I’m not a furry!”
Personally, I don’t care. Then again, I’ve accepted my geekiness long ago, and I don’t have to lash out at a small group of people just because the high point of my day is posting harsh comments on a game site like Kotaku.
My thoughts.
August 28th, 2007 at 6:57 pm
Martha Mihaly
I think it looks really, really good Matt. My favs are Ursine Female and Noctari Female. I will try the game when it starts (even though I said I wouldn’t). - Kathryn
Matt - looks great! I might even break down and play!
August 28th, 2007 at 8:57 pm
Richter
All the pictures look great! Just read the history front to back today, by the way, and I’m terribly excited about it all!
August 29th, 2007 at 6:26 pm
Mike Rozak
IMHO, anthropomorphic animals are good because:
1) They don’t have the Uncanny Valley problem.
2) A person’s choice in what animal to be says something about themselves, making it easier to meet people in an online game. Elves, dwarves, orcs, etc. perform a similar function, as does clothing in SL, and player-selected breast size (large-breasted female MMORPG characters are invariably played by teenage males
).
As far as getting quality usability feeback from players… Good luck. As you’re aware, treasure the 1% that give you clear, unbiased feedback. I’ve been discussing some of the problems with Psychochild. (PS - If you want me to rip apart the screenshots, I can do that in E-mail, but, overall, they’re pretty good.)
August 29th, 2007 at 6:41 pm
Pentharian
Awesome screens, I’m excited to try it out.
I’ve never really got the hate against furries. I think the whole “dress up in a giant plush suit to have sex” is a bit…odd, but that doesn’t make me hate them.
I mean, Cheetara in Thundercats was supposed to be sexy, and I don’t remember every seeing someone saying that the cartoon was a furrie show.
August 30th, 2007 at 9:46 am
Talaen
These character models look awesome Matt! Very cool. I probably won’t be one of your players (too much time in other games already), but I think EE is going to be a great game and many people will enjoy it.
On the furry vs. non-furry thing, how do VWs like Furcadia handle it? You might be able to take a look at their policies - this has almost surely come up elsewhere on the net before.
August 30th, 2007 at 9:50 am
Matt
Thanks all!
Talaen - I don’t think Furcadia really has to balance furry against non-furry interests. I can’t imagine anyone who isn’t a furry playing Furcadia frankly, though maybe I’m wrong.
–matt
September 3rd, 2007 at 2:52 pm
gattsuru
You see a few, although it’s become less rare due to Furcadia’s horrible network security issues.
I dunno. The artwork isn’t bad, per say, but it feels more like something from four or five years ago. I dunno if you’re just aiming for lower end systems or have financial issues, but the textures don’t seem detailed enough and the seams on the joints are not exactly going to win awards. Some additional model smoothing would probably be nice, too.
Even if you’re aiming for the RuneScape market, you have to compete with groups like Conquer Online and GunZ the Duel. Without equipment and full body shots, it’s hard to say too much, but right now the comparison just doesn’t go in your favor.
As to furries… :shrug: Some of them seem decent, some aren’t even into the sexualized stuff… but some if not most of the sexualized stuff will squick even most adults. If you have good rules against offensive content (and enforce them) you can probably keep most of the stuff that’ll squick non-furries out of the way and still attract a good crowd from both sides simply by offering a good game.
September 4th, 2007 at 9:05 am
magicback (frank)
Matt,
Looking good. It’s not high fantasy and it’s not anime cute, so you got yourself a distinctive middle ground with lots of potential from a IP, branding, and merchandising perspective.
However, as EE is neither in the two categories it’ll be a lot of work to inform your potential audience what EE is all about.
The back history is a nice read, and yes, I also think it’s leaning a bit hardcore. But, I don’t think you should do a children’s book version. I think a comic format may be a good middle ground.
In regards to furries, I don’t think your target audience is all that aware of what that is all about. For example, I don’t know what it means and am just learning about it based on what I’m reading now. So, you might want to think about how you better informed your audience about the whole thing.
Overall, nice to see and read the progress so far.
Frank
September 4th, 2007 at 9:26 am
Matt
Gattsuru wrote:
I dunno. The artwork isn’t bad, per say, but it feels more like something from four or five years ago. I dunno if you’re just aiming for lower end systems or have financial issues, but the textures don’t seem detailed enough and the seams on the joints are not exactly going to win awards.
That’s about right.
We are aiming for lower-end systems and we’re developing EE on less than 1 million dollars (vs ~80 million for WoW, I believe).
It’s also playable in a browser.
–matt
September 8th, 2007 at 12:01 pm
Vaevictis
I like the “hardcore” history! It’s what makes Achaea so fun. I don’t think non-hardcore players need to be intimidated by the history — likely most of them won’t want to read it. But there’s not to my knowledge any MMORPG for fans of anthro-animals — all the hardcore games are the same old elves/dwarves/orcs/gnomes/catgirls stuff, and that gets old.
I like that there are no humans, and the races are all distinct from each other. Very NOT high fantasy, and that’s why I’m interested.
Not that high fantasy is inherently bad, I think WoW for example has an interesting history. But I like the chance to play an anthro-animal game.
As for people who kneejerkingly assume that anthro=sex, just make a point of stating your No Public Sex policy and the intelligent, open-minded ones will stop ranting.
September 20th, 2007 at 11:46 am
zanbowser
I’m surprised that noone’s mentioned Redwall; especially in context of the comment about “hardcore-ing the backstory.” I am a big fan (since childhood) of that series, and I would check out EE based solely on that fact. Sure, it may not be the most über game on the lot, but sometimes those still rank as the best.
This, coming from a guy who plays more on his MAME cabinet than he does on next-gen consoles or the PC these days.
As to Furries, I could go the 4chan route (who could resist laughing at that subversion of 40K “suffer not the furry [mutant/alien/heretic] to live…desu?”) because I’ve read and seen some horrifying things out of that community. Folk of alternate persuasions fascinate me though, so I certainly can’t condemn them (at least not in a global sense). TOS clarity is key, for certain.
Wait… what were we talking about again? ^_~
BTW, been reading for a while - just thought to comment. Good stuff, mate; added you to my aggregator.
August 13th, 2008 at 8:12 am
Myth
Hmmmmm…
You’ve got quite a few comments about the ‘furriness’ of the game.
Maybe I can clarify a few things, and give you some pointers.
I, myself, am a furry, so I’ll try to give you a brief overview of what furry is, since some of you seem a bit misguided.
Furry: 1) a anthropomorphic character. eg.: Bugs Bunny, Sonic the Hedgehog, Tony the Tiger, etc…
2) a fan of anthropomorphic characters
A person in the furry fandom is usually there because they have a interest in anthropomorphic characters. It is usually not a interest of the sexual kind, although it does happen. We just enjoy the concept of humaniod animals, whether they are cute and cartoonish or very realistic. Only a small percentage of the fandom wears a full out fursuit. And it’s not to have sex. Although there are probably people who do that, it’s not common. And it’s not why furries go to cons. We go to cons to hang out and discuss our interests in anthros. We go to meet people with similar interests.
Being a furry does not mean having a interest in beastiality… there may be some people in the fandom that do, but it’s not a part of the fandom, it’s a fetish that is separate from the fandom. Same with plushiphiles and all that icky stuff. Not part of the fandom, but there are people in the fandom that are interested in that as well. Just because someone is a furry and is also interested in something of that nature doesn’t mean all furries are the same.
I must say though, that in my opinion… there are things in the fandom that shouldn’t be there. But it’s our own fault for having a open door policy. Being open minded is great, but there are lines that shouldn’t be crossed. The fault is that we have no set rules. And we wouldn’t like it if we had rules, so it’s a bit of a problem. I think we should at least have a agreed upon definition of what furry is, and some guidelines for people in, or about to join, the fandom.
As for your dilemma… make sure you have strict rules against sexual behavior in public areas, and enforce them the best you can. And as for hating on furries… we’ve been fighting that for quite a while now, so I think most of us can handle a bit of hating. But it’s a good idea to have some rules against hating on other players. I’m sure you don’t want a full out furry vs. non-furry war on your hands… unless you wanna incorporate it into the story. :p
-Random Furry
P.S: I know this thread is old, but I couldn’t help but comment…