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	<title>Comments on: Bragg vs. Linden</title>
	<link>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2007/05/31/bragg-vs-linden/</link>
	<description>A blog on virtual worlds, games, and digital content, from Matt Mihaly</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 19:48:30 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: The Forge &#183; Bragg vs. Linden - Interview</title>
		<link>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2007/05/31/bragg-vs-linden/#comment-29658</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2007 18:58:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2007/05/31/bragg-vs-linden/#comment-29658</guid>
					<description>[...] Virtually Blind has a very readable interview up with Jason Archinaco, Marc Bragg&amp;#8217;s lawyer in the case. For those unsure about the details of the case, I&amp;#8217;ve covered it before here and then here. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] Virtually Blind has a very readable interview up with Jason Archinaco, Marc Bragg&#8217;s lawyer in the case. For those unsure about the details of the case, I&#8217;ve covered it before here and then here. [&#8230;]
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		<title>by: Stavros</title>
		<link>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2007/05/31/bragg-vs-linden/#comment-25287</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jul 2007 21:08:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2007/05/31/bragg-vs-linden/#comment-25287</guid>
					<description>I agree, that this ruling is correct, although it generates much effort throughout the industry, which now have to check their business models and their TOS. 

Second Life is a business type virtual word, with the primary intent being business, in contrast to entertainment or community typed virtual worlds. As we play with real money, all rules applying to real money also apply to new technologies usage with real money. 

If the TOS would be legal in this case, why should banks give you the same security (insurance) on online banking, that systems crashed do not have more effect on your bank account than if you would use only &quot;real life&quot; banking (ATM, banking clerks).

New technologies and new ways to use old technologies should not generate real life financial &quot;exploits&quot;.

The future will become more interesting though, as Second Life now starts to get bashed by media, and as we all know, virtual worlds do have a final death state, where they just stop to exist, I'm asking myself, if all those people investing their money into Second Life are consious of the fact, that even a judge cannot give them their money back, if the world just stops to exist because it is not attractive anymore.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree, that this ruling is correct, although it generates much effort throughout the industry, which now have to check their business models and their TOS. </p>
<p>Second Life is a business type virtual word, with the primary intent being business, in contrast to entertainment or community typed virtual worlds. As we play with real money, all rules applying to real money also apply to new technologies usage with real money. </p>
<p>If the TOS would be legal in this case, why should banks give you the same security (insurance) on online banking, that systems crashed do not have more effect on your bank account than if you would use only &#8220;real life&#8221; banking (ATM, banking clerks).</p>
<p>New technologies and new ways to use old technologies should not generate real life financial &#8220;exploits&#8221;.</p>
<p>The future will become more interesting though, as Second Life now starts to get bashed by media, and as we all know, virtual worlds do have a final death state, where they just stop to exist, I&#8217;m asking myself, if all those people investing their money into Second Life are consious of the fact, that even a judge cannot give them their money back, if the world just stops to exist because it is not attractive anymore.
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		<title>by: Second Life Court Ruling Could Limit TOS’ Power : Metaverse Network</title>
		<link>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2007/05/31/bragg-vs-linden/#comment-24793</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jul 2007 23:30:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2007/05/31/bragg-vs-linden/#comment-24793</guid>
					<description>[...] Really interesting stuff. If the lawsuit advances and creates any precedents (still a long way off, but now a legitimate possibility) it would appear to have implications for games that allow real money trading (RMT). Would that include Sony&amp;#8217;s Everquest II, which allows players to buy and sell assets in the Sony-sanctioned Station Exchange? This is a case to watch going forward. See additional discussion at ValleyWag, Raph Koster and The Forge. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] Really interesting stuff. If the lawsuit advances and creates any precedents (still a long way off, but now a legitimate possibility) it would appear to have implications for games that allow real money trading (RMT). Would that include Sony&#8217;s Everquest II, which allows players to buy and sell assets in the Sony-sanctioned Station Exchange? This is a case to watch going forward. See additional discussion at ValleyWag, Raph Koster and The Forge. [&#8230;]
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		<title>by: The Forge &#183; Bragg vs. Linden - Linden Strikes Back</title>
		<link>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2007/05/31/bragg-vs-linden/#comment-20585</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Jun 2007 00:26:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2007/05/31/bragg-vs-linden/#comment-20585</guid>
					<description>[...] A month ago I blogged about what is shaping up to be an interesting virtual world law case between an ex-Second Life user (Bragg) and Linden Labs (SL&amp;#8217;s developer). I summarize the case at the very bottom of the post if you&amp;#8217;re not familiar with it. That post talked about Judge Robreno&amp;#8217;s ruling that he was declaring part of Linden&amp;#8217;s ToS invalid, among other things. Linden has now filed its response to Bragg&amp;#8217;s claims, as well as its counterclaims (they are suing Bragg now). You can find the court filing here. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] A month ago I blogged about what is shaping up to be an interesting virtual world law case between an ex-Second Life user (Bragg) and Linden Labs (SL&#8217;s developer). I summarize the case at the very bottom of the post if you&#8217;re not familiar with it. That post talked about Judge Robreno&#8217;s ruling that he was declaring part of Linden&#8217;s ToS invalid, among other things. Linden has now filed its response to Bragg&#8217;s claims, as well as its counterclaims (they are suing Bragg now). You can find the court filing here. [&#8230;]
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		<title>by: leon's web3d blog</title>
		<link>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2007/05/31/bragg-vs-linden/#comment-17722</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jun 2007 16:19:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2007/05/31/bragg-vs-linden/#comment-17722</guid>
					<description>maybe the advertisement in second life will another good idea</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>maybe the advertisement in second life will another good idea
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		<title>by: Sam</title>
		<link>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2007/05/31/bragg-vs-linden/#comment-17516</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Jun 2007 06:34:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2007/05/31/bragg-vs-linden/#comment-17516</guid>
					<description>Linden Labs advertises its virtual world (and your avatar therein) as a place to invest. They then force you to sign an agreement that they can take away your &quot;investment&quot; at any time. 

That sounds extremely fishy. This kind of TOS might be acceptable where the game provide emphasizes that the virtual values are not only not linked to real value but specifically prohibits the exchange (e.g. WoW).

In my opinion, this is a decision that makes sense and was necessary. If you encourage people to invest, they will expect rights to that investment. This is true for Second Life, Project Entropia and maybe even for Everquest 2 Exchange Servers.

I highly doubt this will have any impact on typical MMOs that forbid trading of virtual for real currency. I also doubt that this has a significant impact on TOS for MMOs in general.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Linden Labs advertises its virtual world (and your avatar therein) as a place to invest. They then force you to sign an agreement that they can take away your &#8220;investment&#8221; at any time. </p>
<p>That sounds extremely fishy. This kind of TOS might be acceptable where the game provide emphasizes that the virtual values are not only not linked to real value but specifically prohibits the exchange (e.g. WoW).</p>
<p>In my opinion, this is a decision that makes sense and was necessary. If you encourage people to invest, they will expect rights to that investment. This is true for Second Life, Project Entropia and maybe even for Everquest 2 Exchange Servers.</p>
<p>I highly doubt this will have any impact on typical MMOs that forbid trading of virtual for real currency. I also doubt that this has a significant impact on TOS for MMOs in general.
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		<title>by: Second Life Court Ruling Could Limit TOS&#8217; Power</title>
		<link>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2007/05/31/bragg-vs-linden/#comment-17204</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 May 2007 22:44:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2007/05/31/bragg-vs-linden/#comment-17204</guid>
					<description>[...] Really interesting stuff. If the lawsuit advances and creates any precedents (still a long way off, but now a legitimate possibility) it would appear to have implications for games that allow real money trading (RMT). Would that include Sony&amp;#8217;s Everquest II, which allows players to buy and sell assets in the Sony-sanctioned Station Exchange? This is a case to watch going forward. See additional discussion at ValleyWag, Raph Koster and The Forge.  Share and Enjoy:These icons link to social bookmarking sites where readers can share and discover new web pages. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] Really interesting stuff. If the lawsuit advances and creates any precedents (still a long way off, but now a legitimate possibility) it would appear to have implications for games that allow real money trading (RMT). Would that include Sony&#8217;s Everquest II, which allows players to buy and sell assets in the Sony-sanctioned Station Exchange? This is a case to watch going forward. See additional discussion at ValleyWag, Raph Koster and The Forge.  Share and Enjoy:These icons link to social bookmarking sites where readers can share and discover new web pages. [&#8230;]
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		<title>by: And then things started to get ugly. at What Would Matt Do</title>
		<link>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2007/05/31/bragg-vs-linden/#comment-17202</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 May 2007 22:12:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2007/05/31/bragg-vs-linden/#comment-17202</guid>
					<description>[...] First, Second Labs doesn&amp;#8217;t fair so well when holding their TOS up in front of a judge. From Raph: What it boils down to, though, is that the court is saying that some pretty common elements of TOS agreements may be considered unfair by law [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] First, Second Labs doesn&#8217;t fair so well when holding their TOS up in front of a judge. From Raph: What it boils down to, though, is that the court is saying that some pretty common elements of TOS agreements may be considered unfair by law [&#8230;]
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		<title>by: Psychochild&#8217;s Blog &#187; TOS is in danger!</title>
		<link>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2007/05/31/bragg-vs-linden/#comment-17201</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 May 2007 21:59:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2007/05/31/bragg-vs-linden/#comment-17201</guid>
					<description>[...] Okay, so it isn't an M59 event. But, it's an issue that has been spreading around like wildfire. Long story short: a court has thrown out a provision in Second Life's (SL) TOS in regards to a lawsuit filed by a player. This is causing some raised eyebrows, to say the least. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] Okay, so it isn&#8217;t an M59 event. But, it&#8217;s an issue that has been spreading around like wildfire. Long story short: a court has thrown out a provision in Second Life&#8217;s (SL) TOS in regards to a lawsuit filed by a player. This is causing some raised eyebrows, to say the least. [&#8230;]
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		<title>by: MMODump.com &#187; Bragg vs. Linden</title>
		<link>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2007/05/31/bragg-vs-linden/#comment-17197</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 May 2007 21:13:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2007/05/31/bragg-vs-linden/#comment-17197</guid>
					<description>[...] vs. Linden  Bragg vs. Linden:&amp;#8220; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] vs. Linden  Bragg vs. Linden:&#8220; [&#8230;]
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