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	<title>Comments on: Jackass Alert</title>
	<link>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2007/05/02/jackass-alert/</link>
	<description>A blog on virtual worlds, games, and digital content, from Matt Mihaly</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 23:46:35 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.0.3</generator>

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		<title>by: Michael Innes</title>
		<link>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2007/05/02/jackass-alert/#comment-18042</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Jun 2007 07:58:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2007/05/02/jackass-alert/#comment-18042</guid>
					<description>It's been over a moth since the article was originally posted, but I still feel like commenting.  
This would had have to have been seven-ish years ago.  My middle school had a program where students could play certain sports during lunch, while recruiting other students to act as refferees and scorekeepers (the exact sport changing with the season).  I acted as a scorekeeper, keeping track of things that needed to be kept track of on a clipboard with a pencil.  One day, one of the players disagreed with my count of his fouls, and decided that violence was the answer.  After staying in the nurse's office for about a half-hour, I was taken to the principal's office to be informed that &lt;i&gt;I&lt;/i&gt; was going to be suspended, and that he was trying to get &lt;i&gt;me&lt;/i&gt; expelled, due to the fact that &lt;i&gt;while I was being beat up,&lt;/i&gt; the bully had &lt;i&gt;scratched himself.&lt;/i&gt;  It had been decided that the pencil I possessed should be considered a deadly weapon, and I was a threat to the other students.  Because I had a pencil.  In a school.  A school that required it's students to have pencils.  And someone who was &lt;i&gt;beating me up&lt;/i&gt; got scratched.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s been over a moth since the article was originally posted, but I still feel like commenting.<br />
This would had have to have been seven-ish years ago.  My middle school had a program where students could play certain sports during lunch, while recruiting other students to act as refferees and scorekeepers (the exact sport changing with the season).  I acted as a scorekeeper, keeping track of things that needed to be kept track of on a clipboard with a pencil.  One day, one of the players disagreed with my count of his fouls, and decided that violence was the answer.  After staying in the nurse&#8217;s office for about a half-hour, I was taken to the principal&#8217;s office to be informed that <i>I</i> was going to be suspended, and that he was trying to get <i>me</i> expelled, due to the fact that <i>while I was being beat up,</i> the bully had <i>scratched himself.</i>  It had been decided that the pencil I possessed should be considered a deadly weapon, and I was a threat to the other students.  Because I had a pencil.  In a school.  A school that required it&#8217;s students to have pencils.  And someone who was <i>beating me up</i> got scratched.
</p>
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		<title>by: Riv</title>
		<link>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2007/05/02/jackass-alert/#comment-15963</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 May 2007 06:38:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2007/05/02/jackass-alert/#comment-15963</guid>
					<description>There's so many extra points to make here that it'd take an entire page that'd rival the news article. Suffice it to say, reactions like these are counter-productive. You're basically singling out this kid, saying WTF? were you thinking you dumb idiot, and practically forcing him into a future mold of disgust and indignation. Likening him to the Virginia Tech shooter is so far off-base it's silly. The VT student had a history of an aggressive nature towards women he desired, so much so that a teacher felt the need to report him. If this kid had anything of the sort, the news would have latched onto that puppy like a shark on blood and it'd be splashed everywhere. As it is not, we can rightly come to the conclusion that the situation was as cut and dry as was reported. 

Ultimately, the responses of &quot;we need to over-react to protect our children&quot; will in the end, lend itself towards creating ever worsening scenarios. You think it's hard to tell now whether some kid is gonna go nuts? Wait till you start enabling a crack down on simple little comments a kid might make. The ones you need to worry about will clam up even further making it harder to detect their intentions.

What kid hasn't said something they didn't mean in the heat of anger? &quot;I want to freaking kill that kid,&quot; after he steals your ball after recess. For those that agree with this students punishment, you'd be throwing the book at some little future Valedictorian that would go on to become a productive member of society.

Fine, investigate the poor kid for making a bad decision. But don't make it public news and suspend him when you find out there's no further basis for any accusations and you're just trying to prove that you're pro-active in this time of crisis.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s so many extra points to make here that it&#8217;d take an entire page that&#8217;d rival the news article. Suffice it to say, reactions like these are counter-productive. You&#8217;re basically singling out this kid, saying WTF? were you thinking you dumb idiot, and practically forcing him into a future mold of disgust and indignation. Likening him to the Virginia Tech shooter is so far off-base it&#8217;s silly. The VT student had a history of an aggressive nature towards women he desired, so much so that a teacher felt the need to report him. If this kid had anything of the sort, the news would have latched onto that puppy like a shark on blood and it&#8217;d be splashed everywhere. As it is not, we can rightly come to the conclusion that the situation was as cut and dry as was reported. </p>
<p>Ultimately, the responses of &#8220;we need to over-react to protect our children&#8221; will in the end, lend itself towards creating ever worsening scenarios. You think it&#8217;s hard to tell now whether some kid is gonna go nuts? Wait till you start enabling a crack down on simple little comments a kid might make. The ones you need to worry about will clam up even further making it harder to detect their intentions.</p>
<p>What kid hasn&#8217;t said something they didn&#8217;t mean in the heat of anger? &#8220;I want to freaking kill that kid,&#8221; after he steals your ball after recess. For those that agree with this students punishment, you&#8217;d be throwing the book at some little future Valedictorian that would go on to become a productive member of society.</p>
<p>Fine, investigate the poor kid for making a bad decision. But don&#8217;t make it public news and suspend him when you find out there&#8217;s no further basis for any accusations and you&#8217;re just trying to prove that you&#8217;re pro-active in this time of crisis.
</p>
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		<title>by: Tech Is &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Giocare a Counter-Strike è da terroristi</title>
		<link>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2007/05/02/jackass-alert/#comment-15719</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 May 2007 03:36:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2007/05/02/jackass-alert/#comment-15719</guid>
					<description>[...] Una successiva perquisizione in casa dello studente, la cui identità resta protetta dal più stretto riserbo, non ha prodotto alcuna prova indicante potenziali minacce: sarebbero state rivenute unicamente cinque spade decorative da collezione, non affilate, e un martello che, secondo i familiari, il giovane impiega per sistemare il suo letto traballante. Tali rinvenimenti non hanno mancato di suscitare ironia e sarcasmo nella blogosfera. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] Una successiva perquisizione in casa dello studente, la cui identità resta protetta dal più stretto riserbo, non ha prodotto alcuna prova indicante potenziali minacce: sarebbero state rivenute unicamente cinque spade decorative da collezione, non affilate, e un martello che, secondo i familiari, il giovane impiega per sistemare il suo letto traballante. Tali rinvenimenti non hanno mancato di suscitare ironia e sarcasmo nella blogosfera. [&#8230;]
</p>
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		<title>by: leon's web3d blog</title>
		<link>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2007/05/02/jackass-alert/#comment-15585</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 May 2007 14:46:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2007/05/02/jackass-alert/#comment-15585</guid>
					<description>that's unbelieveble, what a school</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>that&#8217;s unbelieveble, what a school
</p>
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		<title>by: Swedishguy25</title>
		<link>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2007/05/02/jackass-alert/#comment-15193</link>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 May 2007 08:36:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2007/05/02/jackass-alert/#comment-15193</guid>
					<description>Dident he make this mod at home? In his HOME?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dident he make this mod at home? In his HOME?
</p>
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		<title>by: Matt</title>
		<link>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2007/05/02/jackass-alert/#comment-15139</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 May 2007 17:31:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2007/05/02/jackass-alert/#comment-15139</guid>
					<description>Adele wrote:
&lt;i&gt;
I pretty much agree with everything Doogal said. Kids have access to the internet and kids using that access to find ways to harm people is not the same thing as you are trying to put it.
&lt;/i&gt;
Exactly. Kids using the internet to find ways to harm people is not the same thing as this situation. I'm glad you agree. So why are you so intent on punishing a kid who was neither trying to nor did harm anyone? 

&lt;i&gt;
You keep bringing up the point that there is no evidence that there was any malice intentions, but then again you have not given any evidence that there wasn’t. 
&lt;/i&gt;

So, a total lack of evidence becomes a reason to punish people in your eyes. That's just incredible to me. Not to sound overly dramatic but do you realize where that kind of logic leads?

&quot;Best expel all children who express any sort of resistance to blind obedience. After all, there's no evidence that this isn't an expression of a desire to shoot authority figures. Safer to just expel them.&quot;

&quot;Best black-list anyone in a union. They might be Communists and Communists might be dangerous.&quot;

 &quot;Best arrest all the Muslims. There's no evidence they don't have malicious intentions. After all, the guys that blew up the twin towers also were Muslim.&quot;

Those use exactly the same logic. There's no evidence that any particular individual who falls in those groups (a rebellious child, a union member,a muslim) is a threat but under your reasoning we should be able to punish them anyway based on....nothing but utterly unfounded paranoia.

&lt;i&gt;
A child making a model of that type is questionable.'
&lt;/i&gt;
Why? You keep saying that, along with a couple others, but you've yet to provide any reason to believe it's questionable. Can you demonstrate some sort of historical link between being a 3d modeler and hurting people? Can demonstrate -any- link at all? I'm quite sure you cannot because no such link exists.

&lt;i&gt;
Do you have children Matt?
&lt;/i&gt;
Nope, but my girlfriend and family are all more likely to be killed walking down the street than your kid is at school, and you don't see me freaking out and calling for punishing random people on the street just because there's no evidence that the workman carrying a screwdriver DOESN'T intend to use it for violent reasons, or for anyone who drinks alcohol and has a driver's license to be put away since there's no evidence the person doesn't intend to get behind a four-wheeled murder machine while drunk.

In free societies, evidence must precede punishment. Otherwise justice just went goodbye.

--matt</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Adele wrote:<br />
<i><br />
I pretty much agree with everything Doogal said. Kids have access to the internet and kids using that access to find ways to harm people is not the same thing as you are trying to put it.<br />
</i><br />
Exactly. Kids using the internet to find ways to harm people is not the same thing as this situation. I&#8217;m glad you agree. So why are you so intent on punishing a kid who was neither trying to nor did harm anyone? </p>
<p><i><br />
You keep bringing up the point that there is no evidence that there was any malice intentions, but then again you have not given any evidence that there wasn’t.<br />
</i></p>
<p>So, a total lack of evidence becomes a reason to punish people in your eyes. That&#8217;s just incredible to me. Not to sound overly dramatic but do you realize where that kind of logic leads?</p>
<p>&#8220;Best expel all children who express any sort of resistance to blind obedience. After all, there&#8217;s no evidence that this isn&#8217;t an expression of a desire to shoot authority figures. Safer to just expel them.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;Best black-list anyone in a union. They might be Communists and Communists might be dangerous.&#8221;</p>
<p> &#8220;Best arrest all the Muslims. There&#8217;s no evidence they don&#8217;t have malicious intentions. After all, the guys that blew up the twin towers also were Muslim.&#8221;</p>
<p>Those use exactly the same logic. There&#8217;s no evidence that any particular individual who falls in those groups (a rebellious child, a union member,a muslim) is a threat but under your reasoning we should be able to punish them anyway based on&#8230;.nothing but utterly unfounded paranoia.</p>
<p><i><br />
A child making a model of that type is questionable.&#8217;<br />
</i><br />
Why? You keep saying that, along with a couple others, but you&#8217;ve yet to provide any reason to believe it&#8217;s questionable. Can you demonstrate some sort of historical link between being a 3d modeler and hurting people? Can demonstrate -any- link at all? I&#8217;m quite sure you cannot because no such link exists.</p>
<p><i><br />
Do you have children Matt?<br />
</i><br />
Nope, but my girlfriend and family are all more likely to be killed walking down the street than your kid is at school, and you don&#8217;t see me freaking out and calling for punishing random people on the street just because there&#8217;s no evidence that the workman carrying a screwdriver DOESN&#8217;T intend to use it for violent reasons, or for anyone who drinks alcohol and has a driver&#8217;s license to be put away since there&#8217;s no evidence the person doesn&#8217;t intend to get behind a four-wheeled murder machine while drunk.</p>
<p>In free societies, evidence must precede punishment. Otherwise justice just went goodbye.</p>
<p>&#8211;matt
</p>
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		<title>by: adele</title>
		<link>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2007/05/02/jackass-alert/#comment-15102</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 May 2007 06:19:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2007/05/02/jackass-alert/#comment-15102</guid>
					<description>I typed up another response to this, but it is pretty pointless to keep arguing it. Those of us on here that disagree with you aren't going to suddenly agree with you, and you aren't going to agree with us. We pretty much think the other is completely wrong and absurd, so at this point I will just say that we will agree to disagree.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I typed up another response to this, but it is pretty pointless to keep arguing it. Those of us on here that disagree with you aren&#8217;t going to suddenly agree with you, and you aren&#8217;t going to agree with us. We pretty much think the other is completely wrong and absurd, so at this point I will just say that we will agree to disagree.
</p>
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		<title>by: Faethyr</title>
		<link>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2007/05/02/jackass-alert/#comment-15074</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 May 2007 23:20:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2007/05/02/jackass-alert/#comment-15074</guid>
					<description>Adele, unless I'm really missing something here, what you just said is sort of the point of the entire argument. The problem is finding out WHY it is that it's &quot;no longer OK&quot; to do these things, when there is no substansial evidence to support what is essentially pouncing on assumptions.

People make game mods of places that are familiar to them all the time. And many/most of the games that have the capability to make such mods involve shooting people. Does this mean the proper authorities have to hunt down everyone who's based a combat-centred game on a real place and lock them up so they don't enact it? How about arresting everyone who's ever played GTA? That's based on real places - the people who play it must want to run around crashing cars and shooting people in NYC!

The arguments for what has happened are, quite honestly, absurd, and nobody posting here defending the decision has so far managed to find a reason for it that had nothing to do with hysteria or simple fear. We're going round in circles.

When making sweeping decisions that will change the rest of a person's life, probably for the worst, emotions cannot be allowed to enter into the thought process, or the whole system will go to the dogs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Adele, unless I&#8217;m really missing something here, what you just said is sort of the point of the entire argument. The problem is finding out WHY it is that it&#8217;s &#8220;no longer OK&#8221; to do these things, when there is no substansial evidence to support what is essentially pouncing on assumptions.</p>
<p>People make game mods of places that are familiar to them all the time. And many/most of the games that have the capability to make such mods involve shooting people. Does this mean the proper authorities have to hunt down everyone who&#8217;s based a combat-centred game on a real place and lock them up so they don&#8217;t enact it? How about arresting everyone who&#8217;s ever played GTA? That&#8217;s based on real places - the people who play it must want to run around crashing cars and shooting people in NYC!</p>
<p>The arguments for what has happened are, quite honestly, absurd, and nobody posting here defending the decision has so far managed to find a reason for it that had nothing to do with hysteria or simple fear. We&#8217;re going round in circles.</p>
<p>When making sweeping decisions that will change the rest of a person&#8217;s life, probably for the worst, emotions cannot be allowed to enter into the thought process, or the whole system will go to the dogs.
</p>
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		<title>by: adele</title>
		<link>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2007/05/02/jackass-alert/#comment-15069</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 May 2007 22:48:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2007/05/02/jackass-alert/#comment-15069</guid>
					<description>No it doesn't cloud my judgement. It makes me able to better understand why the administrators had to take action. In this day and age it is no longer OK to make models of that type. Schools aren't the safe haven that they once were, and because of that reason they created the &quot;no tolerance&quot; rule, which that model does violate, which the punishment is suspension or being expelled from the school.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No it doesn&#8217;t cloud my judgement. It makes me able to better understand why the administrators had to take action. In this day and age it is no longer OK to make models of that type. Schools aren&#8217;t the safe haven that they once were, and because of that reason they created the &#8220;no tolerance&#8221; rule, which that model does violate, which the punishment is suspension or being expelled from the school.
</p>
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		<title>by: Galleus</title>
		<link>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2007/05/02/jackass-alert/#comment-15063</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 May 2007 21:55:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2007/05/02/jackass-alert/#comment-15063</guid>
					<description>Adele, having children does not improve the quality of your outlook on this situation; quite the opposite, it merely clouds your better judgment due to the emotional power that fear holds. It's understandable, but ultimately illogical. In respect to personal freedoms, you -must- divorce such emotional responses from the context of your argument, or the content suffers.

As Matt has already pointed out, Doogal's example ignored the very point that was being made. The context of the Hwang's mod was no more offensive or dangerous or worrying than any other benign use of 3D modeling technology. There's nothing that has ever been proven that links this activity to school shootings, so there's no logic behind the punishment of an individual as a result thereof.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Adele, having children does not improve the quality of your outlook on this situation; quite the opposite, it merely clouds your better judgment due to the emotional power that fear holds. It&#8217;s understandable, but ultimately illogical. In respect to personal freedoms, you -must- divorce such emotional responses from the context of your argument, or the content suffers.</p>
<p>As Matt has already pointed out, Doogal&#8217;s example ignored the very point that was being made. The context of the Hwang&#8217;s mod was no more offensive or dangerous or worrying than any other benign use of 3D modeling technology. There&#8217;s nothing that has ever been proven that links this activity to school shootings, so there&#8217;s no logic behind the punishment of an individual as a result thereof.
</p>
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