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	<title>Comments on: Digg Users Revolt</title>
	<link>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2007/05/02/digg-users-revolt/</link>
	<description>A blog on virtual worlds, games, and digital content, from Matt Mihaly</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 03:27:24 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: Pär Winzell</title>
		<link>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2007/05/02/digg-users-revolt/#comment-14934</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 May 2007 18:08:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2007/05/02/digg-users-revolt/#comment-14934</guid>
					<description>There is also the fact that any 'protest' on a MMO pretty much amounts to sullen pouting (it's too fun to play to actually do something like cancelling your account) whereas it's pretty satisfying to be able to punch The Man in the face by posting a couple of hex codes, especially when you're thereby demonstrating and glorying in the technologist's superior understanding of DRM's intrinsic Achilles heel.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is also the fact that any &#8216;protest&#8217; on a MMO pretty much amounts to sullen pouting (it&#8217;s too fun to play to actually do something like cancelling your account) whereas it&#8217;s pretty satisfying to be able to punch The Man in the face by posting a couple of hex codes, especially when you&#8217;re thereby demonstrating and glorying in the technologist&#8217;s superior understanding of DRM&#8217;s intrinsic Achilles heel.
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		<title>by: leon's web3d blog</title>
		<link>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2007/05/02/digg-users-revolt/#comment-14927</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 May 2007 16:29:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2007/05/02/digg-users-revolt/#comment-14927</guid>
					<description>seems that digger don't want to change the result manully</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>seems that digger don&#8217;t want to change the result manully
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		<title>by: Azaroth&#8217;s Blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Digg&#8217;s Hole Gets Dugg</title>
		<link>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2007/05/02/digg-users-revolt/#comment-14868</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 May 2007 04:25:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2007/05/02/digg-users-revolt/#comment-14868</guid>
					<description>[...] I found this particularly interesting after reading Matt&amp;#8217;s take on it, where he expands with the thought: I think the lesson for game operators is that you are always one decision away from alienating a huge portion of your userbase. It doesn’t matter how many fanbois you have. Not only will some of them turn on you and become your harshest critics, but most of your players have little to no real loyalty to you. They may admire you but most of them are there for the experience, not you. Bad decisions are permitted, but decisions that fly directly in the face of everything your players expect from you could elicit a response remarkably like spontaneous combustion. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] I found this particularly interesting after reading Matt&#8217;s take on it, where he expands with the thought: I think the lesson for game operators is that you are always one decision away from alienating a huge portion of your userbase. It doesn’t matter how many fanbois you have. Not only will some of them turn on you and become your harshest critics, but most of your players have little to no real loyalty to you. They may admire you but most of them are there for the experience, not you. Bad decisions are permitted, but decisions that fly directly in the face of everything your players expect from you could elicit a response remarkably like spontaneous combustion. [&#8230;]
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		<title>by: F. Randall Farmer</title>
		<link>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2007/05/02/digg-users-revolt/#comment-14814</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 May 2007 18:11:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2007/05/02/digg-users-revolt/#comment-14814</guid>
					<description>Matt - Great post of the general phenomenon of “who owns an online community?”

I think there is a direct correlation between the share of value in a service that is created by the users and the user’s sense of ownership – and by extension, the sense of outrage when an unpopular change is thrust upon them. Digg is 90+% user created content, Second Life is similar, leading to lots of in-service user “protests”. Neopets? Not so much.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matt - Great post of the general phenomenon of “who owns an online community?”</p>
<p>I think there is a direct correlation between the share of value in a service that is created by the users and the user’s sense of ownership – and by extension, the sense of outrage when an unpopular change is thrust upon them. Digg is 90+% user created content, Second Life is similar, leading to lots of in-service user “protests”. Neopets? Not so much.
</p>
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		<title>by: BugHunter</title>
		<link>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2007/05/02/digg-users-revolt/#comment-14812</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 May 2007 17:53:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2007/05/02/digg-users-revolt/#comment-14812</guid>
					<description>MMOs don't provide such an open forum for opinion as Digg does. MMO issues tend to only be about MMOs, whereas Digg communicates general interest on a wide variety of topics (pretty much limitless isn't it). The same sort of thing probably could have happened in MySpace, or Blogger.

Players get pretty heated about MMO changes, but they really aren't as big of a deal as a meddling government. A class nerf, combat changes, crafter neglect, and so on, are pretty fleeting. I mean, will it really matter in a couple of years? On the other hand there are a whole lot of people who seem to be very angry about DRM and the DMCA (it probably extends to the RIAA, patent law, and copyrights as well), and this has been building for years and years.

I think what we are seeing is a large group of people who feel like they haven't had a voice in government for a while (probably been decades since govenment hasn't been bought off). That government came to tax them without representing them properly. That goverment seems to have slept through US History class in High School.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MMOs don&#8217;t provide such an open forum for opinion as Digg does. MMO issues tend to only be about MMOs, whereas Digg communicates general interest on a wide variety of topics (pretty much limitless isn&#8217;t it). The same sort of thing probably could have happened in MySpace, or Blogger.</p>
<p>Players get pretty heated about MMO changes, but they really aren&#8217;t as big of a deal as a meddling government. A class nerf, combat changes, crafter neglect, and so on, are pretty fleeting. I mean, will it really matter in a couple of years? On the other hand there are a whole lot of people who seem to be very angry about DRM and the DMCA (it probably extends to the RIAA, patent law, and copyrights as well), and this has been building for years and years.</p>
<p>I think what we are seeing is a large group of people who feel like they haven&#8217;t had a voice in government for a while (probably been decades since govenment hasn&#8217;t been bought off). That government came to tax them without representing them properly. That goverment seems to have slept through US History class in High School.
</p>
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		<title>by: Talaen</title>
		<link>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2007/05/02/digg-users-revolt/#comment-14807</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 May 2007 17:19:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2007/05/02/digg-users-revolt/#comment-14807</guid>
					<description>@Allen:

Actually, they've took the hit and they're past it and growing again.  It required (from what us players can tell) a near-complete management turnover on the SWG team to make it happen, but the current dev team for SWG is doing a better job of listening to actual players than has happened since Beta, and they're also steadily either adding back features that should never have been removed (albeit retooled versions of those features), or coming up with new ideas to address long-standing problems, some of which go back even before the NGE.  Within another year the NGE will just be a fading memory, and if they do something smart like make a killer expansion and market it well, they might actually succeed in making SWG really be competitive with other large MMO titles.

So I agree with Matt that it is very easy to make a bad decision and alienate a large portion of your userbase, but it is also possible to win them back afterwards, although the amount of work it takes is going to be exponential.  In the case of Digg, all they may be doing is martyring themselves for the sake of their users, but time will tell.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Allen:</p>
<p>Actually, they&#8217;ve took the hit and they&#8217;re past it and growing again.  It required (from what us players can tell) a near-complete management turnover on the SWG team to make it happen, but the current dev team for SWG is doing a better job of listening to actual players than has happened since Beta, and they&#8217;re also steadily either adding back features that should never have been removed (albeit retooled versions of those features), or coming up with new ideas to address long-standing problems, some of which go back even before the NGE.  Within another year the NGE will just be a fading memory, and if they do something smart like make a killer expansion and market it well, they might actually succeed in making SWG really be competitive with other large MMO titles.</p>
<p>So I agree with Matt that it is very easy to make a bad decision and alienate a large portion of your userbase, but it is also possible to win them back afterwards, although the amount of work it takes is going to be exponential.  In the case of Digg, all they may be doing is martyring themselves for the sake of their users, but time will tell.
</p>
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		<title>by: Matt</title>
		<link>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2007/05/02/digg-users-revolt/#comment-14805</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 May 2007 16:57:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2007/05/02/digg-users-revolt/#comment-14805</guid>
					<description>Par: I\'m not sure about that. What if Blizzard instituted permadeath?

--matt</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Par: I\&#8217;m not sure about that. What if Blizzard instituted permadeath?</p>
<p>&#8211;matt
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		<title>by: Matt</title>
		<link>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2007/05/02/digg-users-revolt/#comment-14804</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 May 2007 16:57:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2007/05/02/digg-users-revolt/#comment-14804</guid>
					<description>Yeah, I was trying not to get down on Kevin (whom I don't know personally I might add) but when I said that the easy answer was that he had failed to properly set expectations that's pretty much what I meant. I'm just not sure if that's really an 'answer' insofar as Digg might not have been what it is without his style of management.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, I was trying not to get down on Kevin (whom I don&#8217;t know personally I might add) but when I said that the easy answer was that he had failed to properly set expectations that&#8217;s pretty much what I meant. I&#8217;m just not sure if that&#8217;s really an &#8216;answer&#8217; insofar as Digg might not have been what it is without his style of management.
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		<title>by: Marisa</title>
		<link>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2007/05/02/digg-users-revolt/#comment-14799</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 May 2007 14:12:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2007/05/02/digg-users-revolt/#comment-14799</guid>
					<description>I don't know how well you know Kevin Rose, but this is just the sort of stuff he stands for.  He's very much against DRM and all this copyright gone amuck.  There's a reason they call him the &quot;Dark Tipper&quot;.   You and Kevin are very different guys and I am sure your communities reflect that.  You won't have to worry about the same thing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know how well you know Kevin Rose, but this is just the sort of stuff he stands for.  He&#8217;s very much against DRM and all this copyright gone amuck.  There&#8217;s a reason they call him the &#8220;Dark Tipper&#8221;.   You and Kevin are very different guys and I am sure your communities reflect that.  You won&#8217;t have to worry about the same thing.
</p>
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		<title>by: Pär Winzell</title>
		<link>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2007/05/02/digg-users-revolt/#comment-14796</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 May 2007 13:48:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2007/05/02/digg-users-revolt/#comment-14796</guid>
					<description>I think the emotional investment in a MMO is pretty different. Digg represents an idea, or perhaps more accurately, some vague set of ideas that form something halfway between a world view and an intellectual community.

I can imagine niche MMO's that would be a little like that, but by and large I think players relate to an MMO publisher very differently than Digg's user base does towards their members.

There is not much that Blizzard, say, could do, that would fundamentally betray any implicit promises. They certainly &quot;set expectations&quot; by rather abruptly modifying items retroactively, deleting forum posts simply because they didn't much like them, etc, etc. For every whiner complaining on an MMO's message board, there's a player who knows and accepts that the virtual reality is an ephemeral playground provided for their amusement precisely as long as it suits the publisher.

I'm failing to precisely pinpoint the difference. :/  It's simply a different relationship.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the emotional investment in a MMO is pretty different. Digg represents an idea, or perhaps more accurately, some vague set of ideas that form something halfway between a world view and an intellectual community.</p>
<p>I can imagine niche MMO&#8217;s that would be a little like that, but by and large I think players relate to an MMO publisher very differently than Digg&#8217;s user base does towards their members.</p>
<p>There is not much that Blizzard, say, could do, that would fundamentally betray any implicit promises. They certainly &#8220;set expectations&#8221; by rather abruptly modifying items retroactively, deleting forum posts simply because they didn&#8217;t much like them, etc, etc. For every whiner complaining on an MMO&#8217;s message board, there&#8217;s a player who knows and accepts that the virtual reality is an ephemeral playground provided for their amusement precisely as long as it suits the publisher.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m failing to precisely pinpoint the difference. :/  It&#8217;s simply a different relationship.
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