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	<title>Comments on: Quick Microsoft, sue this guy!</title>
	<link>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2007/02/28/quick-microsoft-sue-this-guy/</link>
	<description>A blog on virtual worlds, games, and digital content, from Matt Mihaly</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 09:25:06 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: The Forge &#183; WoW vs. Glider Court Documents</title>
		<link>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2007/02/28/quick-microsoft-sue-this-guy/#comment-13128</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Apr 2007 04:35:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2007/02/28/quick-microsoft-sue-this-guy/#comment-13128</guid>
					<description>[...] For anyone interested, here&amp;#8217;s the &amp;#8216;case management&amp;#8217; plan for how the WoWGlider case (MDY Industries/Michael Donnelly vs. Blizzard, though there&amp;#8217;s actually one lawsuit and one countersuit that will be handled simultaneously) I&amp;#8217;ve talked about here and here will be handled in court. It also includes a handy summary of the position of each side in the case. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] For anyone interested, here&#8217;s the &#8216;case management&#8217; plan for how the WoWGlider case (MDY Industries/Michael Donnelly vs. Blizzard, though there&#8217;s actually one lawsuit and one countersuit that will be handled simultaneously) I&#8217;ve talked about here and here will be handled in court. It also includes a handy summary of the position of each side in the case. [&#8230;]
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		<title>by: Matt</title>
		<link>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2007/02/28/quick-microsoft-sue-this-guy/#comment-11044</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Mar 2007 20:23:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2007/02/28/quick-microsoft-sue-this-guy/#comment-11044</guid>
					<description>That's not the same thing. Microsoft isn't able to require a license for Xbox 360 peripherals. What they can require a license for is:
a) Using their trademarks.
b) Hooking something up using their proprietary protocol, I think. The DMCA makes it a crime (stupidly in my opinion) to reverse engineer that protocol though.

Simply making a peripheral however does not require a license, and the guy who made the &quot;cheat&quot; device for Xbox Live wouldn't need one as long as he's not using MS's trademark.

That's as I understand it at least.

--matt</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s not the same thing. Microsoft isn&#8217;t able to require a license for Xbox 360 peripherals. What they can require a license for is:<br />
a) Using their trademarks.<br />
b) Hooking something up using their proprietary protocol, I think. The DMCA makes it a crime (stupidly in my opinion) to reverse engineer that protocol though.</p>
<p>Simply making a peripheral however does not require a license, and the guy who made the &#8220;cheat&#8221; device for Xbox Live wouldn&#8217;t need one as long as he&#8217;s not using MS&#8217;s trademark.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s as I understand it at least.</p>
<p>&#8211;matt
</p>
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		<title>by: Andrew Crystall</title>
		<link>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2007/02/28/quick-microsoft-sue-this-guy/#comment-11043</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Mar 2007 20:07:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2007/02/28/quick-microsoft-sue-this-guy/#comment-11043</guid>
					<description>Actually, Microsoft do require a liscence for XBox 360 peripherals.

lessie.. http://news.com.com/Digging+profits+out+of+Xbox/2100-1043_3-5827110.html?tag=nefd.lede</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, Microsoft do require a liscence for XBox 360 peripherals.</p>
<p>lessie.. <a href='http://news.com.com/Digging+profits+out+of+Xbox/2100-1043_3-5827110.html?tag=nefd.lede' rel='nofollow'>http://news.com.com/Digging+profits+out+of+Xbox/2100-1043_3-5827110.html?tag=nefd.lede</a>
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		<title>by: MMODump.com &#187; Quick Microsoft, sue this guy!</title>
		<link>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2007/02/28/quick-microsoft-sue-this-guy/#comment-11026</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Mar 2007 10:48:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2007/02/28/quick-microsoft-sue-this-guy/#comment-11026</guid>
					<description>[...] Microsoft, sue this guy!  Quick Microsoft, sue this guy!:&amp;#8220; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] Microsoft, sue this guy!  Quick Microsoft, sue this guy!:&#8220; [&#8230;]
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		<title>by: Azaroth</title>
		<link>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2007/02/28/quick-microsoft-sue-this-guy/#comment-11019</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Mar 2007 07:48:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2007/02/28/quick-microsoft-sue-this-guy/#comment-11019</guid>
					<description>Third party programs can be a real problem. In fact, Ultima Online has been out for so long that there are programs that utterly decimate the point of playing. PvPers run automatic fighting scripts, crafters and gatherers run crafting and gathering scripts, and a lot of people downright script for money - which not only ruins the economy, but REALLY discourages the people trying to PLAY the game. 

I see that as a problem. A big one.

Blizzard has that, in a way, with WoW Glider. They've implemented some serious spyware to handle third party programs in the past, but WoW Glider hides it process and some other nifty stuff to avoid detection. I think they just came to the end of their options and brought out the lawyers, which they're able (and very willing) to do. 

I don't exactly agree with the morality of suing the guy, but sometimes protecting your own billion dollar cash cow ass comes first. These programs can cause a real problem. And I think that problem starts with the ability to fully automate gameplay that directly affects others and the game as a whole + how many people are using it. 

Whereas a controller that causes pseudo-slow motion used in a multiplayer game by (let's face it) not that many people AFTER the game has already been sold to them and there are no monthly fees or concern for longevity or fair play with the developers might not be considered a huge problem, things like Easy UO and WoW Glider can be. They're a much different beast. 

A beast that should maybe be handled through better attention from GMs, but that shit gets expensive. Whether you're a small company who can't afford it, or Blizzard with millions of players and a need to spend a LOT of to hire on enough GMs so that they can pull out the old watch&amp;#38;detect strategy. 

Countering with better spyware is an arms race that you'll always lose. You can either then sue, or train GMs better, and hire way more of them. The former is easier, probably cheaper in the long run, and likely far more effective. As morally murky as it may be.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Third party programs can be a real problem. In fact, Ultima Online has been out for so long that there are programs that utterly decimate the point of playing. PvPers run automatic fighting scripts, crafters and gatherers run crafting and gathering scripts, and a lot of people downright script for money - which not only ruins the economy, but REALLY discourages the people trying to PLAY the game. </p>
<p>I see that as a problem. A big one.</p>
<p>Blizzard has that, in a way, with WoW Glider. They&#8217;ve implemented some serious spyware to handle third party programs in the past, but WoW Glider hides it process and some other nifty stuff to avoid detection. I think they just came to the end of their options and brought out the lawyers, which they&#8217;re able (and very willing) to do. </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t exactly agree with the morality of suing the guy, but sometimes protecting your own billion dollar cash cow ass comes first. These programs can cause a real problem. And I think that problem starts with the ability to fully automate gameplay that directly affects others and the game as a whole + how many people are using it. </p>
<p>Whereas a controller that causes pseudo-slow motion used in a multiplayer game by (let&#8217;s face it) not that many people AFTER the game has already been sold to them and there are no monthly fees or concern for longevity or fair play with the developers might not be considered a huge problem, things like Easy UO and WoW Glider can be. They&#8217;re a much different beast. </p>
<p>A beast that should maybe be handled through better attention from GMs, but that shit gets expensive. Whether you&#8217;re a small company who can&#8217;t afford it, or Blizzard with millions of players and a need to spend a LOT of to hire on enough GMs so that they can pull out the old watch&amp;detect strategy. </p>
<p>Countering with better spyware is an arms race that you&#8217;ll always lose. You can either then sue, or train GMs better, and hire way more of them. The former is easier, probably cheaper in the long run, and likely far more effective. As morally murky as it may be.
</p>
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		<title>by: Matt</title>
		<link>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2007/02/28/quick-microsoft-sue-this-guy/#comment-11001</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Feb 2007 23:45:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2007/02/28/quick-microsoft-sue-this-guy/#comment-11001</guid>
					<description>Peripherals do not have to be licensed. To me, WoW Glider is just a peripheral, no different from the 3rd party controllers you used to be able to buy that did &quot;slow-motion&quot; for you by just clicking 'start' over and over on games that supported it.

--matt</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Peripherals do not have to be licensed. To me, WoW Glider is just a peripheral, no different from the 3rd party controllers you used to be able to buy that did &#8220;slow-motion&#8221; for you by just clicking &#8217;start&#8217; over and over on games that supported it.</p>
<p>&#8211;matt
</p>
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		<title>by: Marc/Richter</title>
		<link>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2007/02/28/quick-microsoft-sue-this-guy/#comment-11000</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Feb 2007 23:19:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2007/02/28/quick-microsoft-sue-this-guy/#comment-11000</guid>
					<description>I don't believe peripherals have to be licenced, but they don't fiddle with how the game works, just how you work the game, if that makse sense.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t believe peripherals have to be licenced, but they don&#8217;t fiddle with how the game works, just how you work the game, if that makse sense.
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		<title>by: Sisca</title>
		<link>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2007/02/28/quick-microsoft-sue-this-guy/#comment-10998</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Feb 2007 22:19:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2007/02/28/quick-microsoft-sue-this-guy/#comment-10998</guid>
					<description>The main difference, in my opinion, is that he created something to replace his physical interaction with the controller whereas the WoWGlider people reverse engineered Blizzards code. It's subtle but it is a difference.

Aren't all console add-ons licensed, I'm not that up on the whole console hardware market but I thought they had to be officially licensed. If so and he tried to sell it without giving MS their cut he might very well find himself in court.

As one of those that thinks that Blizzard should be going after the WoWGlider guy I also have to say that if this guy were to sell fully assembled versions of his &quot;bot&quot; I'd fully support MS for going after him as well. 

As someone posted in the other thread the difference here is intent. He intended to create a device that allowed him to cheat, just as you used the microphone cord to allow you to cheat the system. WoWGlider intended to create something that they could sell to others that would enable them to cheat. In other words they were looking to make a profit off of Blizzards property without Blizzards consent.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The main difference, in my opinion, is that he created something to replace his physical interaction with the controller whereas the WoWGlider people reverse engineered Blizzards code. It&#8217;s subtle but it is a difference.</p>
<p>Aren&#8217;t all console add-ons licensed, I&#8217;m not that up on the whole console hardware market but I thought they had to be officially licensed. If so and he tried to sell it without giving MS their cut he might very well find himself in court.</p>
<p>As one of those that thinks that Blizzard should be going after the WoWGlider guy I also have to say that if this guy were to sell fully assembled versions of his &#8220;bot&#8221; I&#8217;d fully support MS for going after him as well. </p>
<p>As someone posted in the other thread the difference here is intent. He intended to create a device that allowed him to cheat, just as you used the microphone cord to allow you to cheat the system. WoWGlider intended to create something that they could sell to others that would enable them to cheat. In other words they were looking to make a profit off of Blizzards property without Blizzards consent.
</p>
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		<title>by: Chris</title>
		<link>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2007/02/28/quick-microsoft-sue-this-guy/#comment-10992</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Feb 2007 19:42:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2007/02/28/quick-microsoft-sue-this-guy/#comment-10992</guid>
					<description>I am so making one of those to beat the Living End song on expert in GH2. Or better yet, maybe I can pay him to make me one...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am so making one of those to beat the Living End song on expert in GH2. Or better yet, maybe I can pay him to make me one&#8230;
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