Comments on: Avatars and Identity http://forge.ironrealms.com/2007/01/24/avatars-and-identity/ A blog on virtual worlds, games, and digital content, from Matt Mihaly Thu, 20 Nov 2008 20:55:52 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.0.3 by: Andrew Crystall http://forge.ironrealms.com/2007/01/24/avatars-and-identity/#comment-8822 Mon, 29 Jan 2007 17:24:07 +0000 http://forge.ironrealms.com/2007/01/24/avatars-and-identity/#comment-8822 Under European law, there is no *differentation* in defamation cases between you and your avatar. (The avatar is a fiction, it's actually YOU controlling it) Note that by entering into a game, you agree to its rules on what construes defamation (subject to a few things like racial hatred laws) - so killing someone in counterstrike isn't defamation. Calling an Amarr "slaver scum" in Eve-Online isn't defamation, likewise, because it fits the setting. The law in this case wasn't really drafted with games in mind - the drafters were more concerned with email and forums, but it does seem to make sense. Under European law, there is no *differentation* in defamation cases between you and your avatar. (The avatar is a fiction, it’s actually YOU controlling it)

Note that by entering into a game, you agree to its rules on what construes defamation (subject to a few things like racial hatred laws) - so killing someone in counterstrike isn’t defamation. Calling an Amarr “slaver scum” in Eve-Online isn’t defamation, likewise, because it fits the setting.

The law in this case wasn’t really drafted with games in mind - the drafters were more concerned with email and forums, but it does seem to make sense.

]]> by: PlayNoEvil http://forge.ironrealms.com/2007/01/24/avatars-and-identity/#comment-8750 Sun, 28 Jan 2007 18:04:16 +0000 http://forge.ironrealms.com/2007/01/24/avatars-and-identity/#comment-8750 Galleus - I would be interested in hearing more about your Law in Virtual Worlds curriculum - I cover a number of legal issues related to online gaming over at: http://www.playnoevil.com/. Matt - Thank you for doing a good job of cutting through a lot of the foolishness that is going on in the "virtual world"/"avatar rights" world.... Galleus -

I would be interested in hearing more about your Law in Virtual Worlds curriculum - I cover a number of legal issues related to online gaming over at: http://www.playnoevil.com/.

Matt -

Thank you for doing a good job of cutting through a lot of the foolishness that is going on in the “virtual world”/”avatar rights” world….

]]> by: Matt http://forge.ironrealms.com/2007/01/24/avatars-and-identity/#comment-8675 Sat, 27 Jan 2007 02:26:55 +0000 http://forge.ironrealms.com/2007/01/24/avatars-and-identity/#comment-8675 yeah, I suppose you guys are right. Leeroy is more famous than either. I was just thinking of the Business Week cover and all the media coverage Anshe got. yeah, I suppose you guys are right. Leeroy is more famous than either. I was just thinking of the Business Week cover and all the media coverage Anshe got.

]]> by: Vykromond http://forge.ironrealms.com/2007/01/24/avatars-and-identity/#comment-8673 Sat, 27 Jan 2007 02:14:16 +0000 http://forge.ironrealms.com/2007/01/24/avatars-and-identity/#comment-8673 >Surely Leeroy is more famous than Anshe Chung? And if not, then i would guess that Lord British is more famous than either. I think Leeroy is probably more famous than both, actually. >Surely Leeroy is more famous than Anshe Chung? And if not, then i would guess that Lord British is more famous than either.

I think Leeroy is probably more famous than both, actually.

]]> by: Vesence http://forge.ironrealms.com/2007/01/24/avatars-and-identity/#comment-8624 Fri, 26 Jan 2007 04:25:49 +0000 http://forge.ironrealms.com/2007/01/24/avatars-and-identity/#comment-8624 "What if someone uses their avatar’s name as a general pseudonym? Prokofy Neva comes to mind, for example. Does this affect the ability to defame via attacks on the avatar?" I, as an aspiring author/artist, have considered using Vesence as a pseudonym...I've also taken a lot of the attacks I've gotten on Achaea's forums, more personally than maybe I should. “What if someone uses their avatar’s name as a general pseudonym? Prokofy Neva comes to mind, for example. Does this affect the ability to defame via attacks on the avatar?”

I, as an aspiring author/artist, have considered using Vesence as a pseudonym…I’ve also taken a lot of the attacks I’ve gotten on Achaea’s forums, more personally than maybe I should.

]]> by: Matt http://forge.ironrealms.com/2007/01/24/avatars-and-identity/#comment-8612 Thu, 25 Jan 2007 23:44:01 +0000 http://forge.ironrealms.com/2007/01/24/avatars-and-identity/#comment-8612 Hiya Galleus, Sure, go for it. It shouldn't matter whether it's Second Life or another VW though. The question is the same in any of them. Hiya Galleus,

Sure, go for it. It shouldn’t matter whether it’s Second Life or another VW though. The question is the same in any of them.

]]> by: Galleus http://forge.ironrealms.com/2007/01/24/avatars-and-identity/#comment-8611 Thu, 25 Jan 2007 23:04:28 +0000 http://forge.ironrealms.com/2007/01/24/avatars-and-identity/#comment-8611 Hey Matt, great post. I'm helping to write up a curriculum for a new class being taught at the University of Massachusetts Amherst called "Law in Virtual Worlds" and all of the things you brought up are definitely points I think it'd be a blast to discuss the implications of. With your go-ahead I may just present the questions verbatim as points for discussion at some point, particularly where a large part of our time will probably be in discussion of Second Life, where the basis for these questions seemed to stem from. Hey Matt, great post. I’m helping to write up a curriculum for a new class being taught at the University of Massachusetts Amherst called “Law in Virtual Worlds” and all of the things you brought up are definitely points I think it’d be a blast to discuss the implications of. With your go-ahead I may just present the questions verbatim as points for discussion at some point, particularly where a large part of our time will probably be in discussion of Second Life, where the basis for these questions seemed to stem from.

]]> by: Cael http://forge.ironrealms.com/2007/01/24/avatars-and-identity/#comment-8561 Thu, 25 Jan 2007 10:52:59 +0000 http://forge.ironrealms.com/2007/01/24/avatars-and-identity/#comment-8561 Matt: Many thanks for that. It only makes the matter much clearer. No, you cannot slander or libel a fiction. Matt:

Many thanks for that. It only makes the matter much clearer. No, you cannot slander or libel a fiction.

]]> by: Matt http://forge.ironrealms.com/2007/01/24/avatars-and-identity/#comment-8541 Thu, 25 Jan 2007 04:00:56 +0000 http://forge.ironrealms.com/2007/01/24/avatars-and-identity/#comment-8541 I spoke to a couple legal scholars about this issue, and they were of the opinion that it seems to come down simply to whether a reasonable person who read/heard the defamation would believe you were attacking/defaming the person or the avatar. They also emphasized, though, that this kind of thing is incredibly contextual and that it's hard to give decent answers without a specific situation to apply them to. I spoke to a couple legal scholars about this issue, and they were of the opinion that it seems to come down simply to whether a reasonable person who read/heard the defamation would believe you were attacking/defaming the person or the avatar. They also emphasized, though, that this kind of thing is incredibly contextual and that it’s hard to give decent answers without a specific situation to apply them to.

]]> by: Ryan Shwayder http://forge.ironrealms.com/2007/01/24/avatars-and-identity/#comment-8540 Thu, 25 Jan 2007 03:57:15 +0000 http://forge.ironrealms.com/2007/01/24/avatars-and-identity/#comment-8540 I'm going to go ahead and hope that what you say about a player's avatar doesn't translate legally to saying something about that avatar's player. I would assume it doesn't hold any (or much) greater legal credibility than claiming defaming Drizzt Do'Urden is the same as defaming R.A. Salvatore. Unless, of course, it can be proven beyond doubt that the person defaming the avatar truly and intentionally meant to defame the person controlling the avatar. A comment like "I'm going to steal your car and burn down your house" might be proven to be directed toward the player if it was in a fantasy game without cars or the ability to own a house, for example. I think the important point is: If the defamation can be proven to be impossible in the fiction it takes place in, it might be considered defamation against the user controlling the avatar. I’m going to go ahead and hope that what you say about a player’s avatar doesn’t translate legally to saying something about that avatar’s player. I would assume it doesn’t hold any (or much) greater legal credibility than claiming defaming Drizzt Do’Urden is the same as defaming R.A. Salvatore.

Unless, of course, it can be proven beyond doubt that the person defaming the avatar truly and intentionally meant to defame the person controlling the avatar. A comment like “I’m going to steal your car and burn down your house” might be proven to be directed toward the player if it was in a fantasy game without cars or the ability to own a house, for example.

I think the important point is: If the defamation can be proven to be impossible in the fiction it takes place in, it might be considered defamation against the user controlling the avatar.

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