<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><!-- generator="wordpress/2.0.3" -->
<rss version="2.0" 
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/">
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Is Second Life Sustainable?</title>
	<link>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2006/12/01/is-second-life-sustainable/</link>
	<description>A blog on virtual worlds, games, and digital content, from Matt Mihaly</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 04:31:32 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.0.3</generator>

	<item>
		<title>by: The Forge &#183; The Sword Cuts Both Ways</title>
		<link>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2006/12/01/is-second-life-sustainable/#comment-17927</link>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Jun 2007 18:43:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2006/12/01/is-second-life-sustainable/#comment-17927</guid>
					<description>[...] Back in December, I put up a post here on the Forge listing what I thought were the five major challenges facing Second Life and Linden. &amp;#8220;Media Backlash&amp;#8221; was one of them, but I&amp;#8217;m hardly the first person to have predicted that. I do give myself props for listing ageplay (ie virtual sex with avatars that look like little children) as the most likely cause of a media backlash. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] Back in December, I put up a post here on the Forge listing what I thought were the five major challenges facing Second Life and Linden. &#8220;Media Backlash&#8221; was one of them, but I&#8217;m hardly the first person to have predicted that. I do give myself props for listing ageplay (ie virtual sex with avatars that look like little children) as the most likely cause of a media backlash. [&#8230;]
</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>by: Cael</title>
		<link>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2006/12/01/is-second-life-sustainable/#comment-3170</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Dec 2006 08:07:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2006/12/01/is-second-life-sustainable/#comment-3170</guid>
					<description>But it was mentioned (erroneously) and therefore the answer was relevant.  I never trust user-experience, hard stats work much better.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But it was mentioned (erroneously) and therefore the answer was relevant.  I never trust user-experience, hard stats work much better.
</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>by: Juha</title>
		<link>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2006/12/01/is-second-life-sustainable/#comment-3135</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Dec 2006 11:08:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2006/12/01/is-second-life-sustainable/#comment-3135</guid>
					<description>&quot;Not surprising, Blizzard has been bandwidth efficient since Battle.net. This is yet another example of good engineering. I would also bet WoW is much more server CPU efficient and it is certainly more server efficient per concurrent user.&quot;

It's not a question of one team being able to engineer better than the other. Fundamentally the problem the two teams are solving are different (as Matt already hinted in his answer).

In terms of content, WoW is solving an easy problem where the content set is known in advance and can therefore be distributed to clients a priori.

SL is working on an unknown content set and therefore has a much more difficult problem to solve. Comparing WoW and SL bandwidth usage is an apples to oranges comparison.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Not surprising, Blizzard has been bandwidth efficient since Battle.net. This is yet another example of good engineering. I would also bet WoW is much more server CPU efficient and it is certainly more server efficient per concurrent user.&#8221;</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not a question of one team being able to engineer better than the other. Fundamentally the problem the two teams are solving are different (as Matt already hinted in his answer).</p>
<p>In terms of content, WoW is solving an easy problem where the content set is known in advance and can therefore be distributed to clients a priori.</p>
<p>SL is working on an unknown content set and therefore has a much more difficult problem to solve. Comparing WoW and SL bandwidth usage is an apples to oranges comparison.
</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>by: PlayNoEvil</title>
		<link>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2006/12/01/is-second-life-sustainable/#comment-3122</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Dec 2006 17:07:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2006/12/01/is-second-life-sustainable/#comment-3122</guid>
					<description>Andrew -

My understanding of Eve's performance issues has to do with loads in several systems. The scalability of Eve has been overstated. They do a clever job on the low-end (placing multiple systems on a single server), but not so good on the high end (splitting a single system into multiple servers). I do have a bit more info on my blog from some conversations with some Eve folk.

Reverse-engineering of a protocol should not mean it is unsecure (the code is on the client and so will be compromised eventually). I was simply commenting that they have designed a very efficient protocol from a performance perspective. Security, is, as always, another discussion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andrew -</p>
<p>My understanding of Eve&#8217;s performance issues has to do with loads in several systems. The scalability of Eve has been overstated. They do a clever job on the low-end (placing multiple systems on a single server), but not so good on the high end (splitting a single system into multiple servers). I do have a bit more info on my blog from some conversations with some Eve folk.</p>
<p>Reverse-engineering of a protocol should not mean it is unsecure (the code is on the client and so will be compromised eventually). I was simply commenting that they have designed a very efficient protocol from a performance perspective. Security, is, as always, another discussion.
</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>by: Andrew Crystall</title>
		<link>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2006/12/01/is-second-life-sustainable/#comment-3115</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Dec 2006 11:31:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2006/12/01/is-second-life-sustainable/#comment-3115</guid>
					<description>Taran,

I'd point to Eve Online as a &quot;scaleable&quot; single-world game which has been having general lag problems whoch have been getting slowly worse for several years because the infrastructure can't handle the playerbase.

Also, San Fran? They have to get people to move to Iceland!


PlayNoEvil,

Also bear in mind that B.net's simple minded network protocol was also extremely easy to reverse engineer, something which plagues Wow to this day. Yes, it's an economy of scale, but it does mean that there are quite a few hacks developed which should never have worked in the first place.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Taran,</p>
<p>I&#8217;d point to Eve Online as a &#8220;scaleable&#8221; single-world game which has been having general lag problems whoch have been getting slowly worse for several years because the infrastructure can&#8217;t handle the playerbase.</p>
<p>Also, San Fran? They have to get people to move to Iceland!</p>
<p>PlayNoEvil,</p>
<p>Also bear in mind that B.net&#8217;s simple minded network protocol was also extremely easy to reverse engineer, something which plagues Wow to this day. Yes, it&#8217;s an economy of scale, but it does mean that there are quite a few hacks developed which should never have worked in the first place.
</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>by: Damion Schubert</title>
		<link>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2006/12/01/is-second-life-sustainable/#comment-3112</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Dec 2006 06:57:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2006/12/01/is-second-life-sustainable/#comment-3112</guid>
					<description>I can't believe you didn't mention the real threat Second Life faces: Jack Thompson wandering into a Gorean enclave.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can&#8217;t believe you didn&#8217;t mention the real threat Second Life faces: Jack Thompson wandering into a Gorean enclave.
</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>by: PlayNoEvil</title>
		<link>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2006/12/01/is-second-life-sustainable/#comment-3102</link>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Dec 2006 19:10:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2006/12/01/is-second-life-sustainable/#comment-3102</guid>
					<description>Not surprising, Blizzard has been bandwidth efficient since Battle.net. This is yet another example of good engineering. I would also bet WoW is much more server CPU efficient and it is certainly more server efficient per concurrent user. 

This is also seen by SL's inability to add more private islands quickly - after all, these should just be additional SL servers that should be pretty standard now.

The existing Denial of Service attacks against SL have been pretty serious and, unfortunately, routine (so much so that neither Tony Walsh at Clickable Culture nor I cover them regularly anymore - it just isn't interesting). SL has avoided a publicity backlash related to these outages, so far. 

Linden Lab seems to focus on the use of the FBI for its response to these events. There has not been much indication of a strengthening of its technical infrastructure to resist attacks or effectively identify the culprits.

It is actually surprising that no one has created a politically provocative Denial of Service attack with a clever visual element. Such an attack, especially if it could be played in video on the news, would get a huge amount of press.

Escort services and furries in SL are  a huge portion of its economy - something that doesn't get any attention at all in the mainstream press.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not surprising, Blizzard has been bandwidth efficient since Battle.net. This is yet another example of good engineering. I would also bet WoW is much more server CPU efficient and it is certainly more server efficient per concurrent user. </p>
<p>This is also seen by SL&#8217;s inability to add more private islands quickly - after all, these should just be additional SL servers that should be pretty standard now.</p>
<p>The existing Denial of Service attacks against SL have been pretty serious and, unfortunately, routine (so much so that neither Tony Walsh at Clickable Culture nor I cover them regularly anymore - it just isn&#8217;t interesting). SL has avoided a publicity backlash related to these outages, so far. </p>
<p>Linden Lab seems to focus on the use of the FBI for its response to these events. There has not been much indication of a strengthening of its technical infrastructure to resist attacks or effectively identify the culprits.</p>
<p>It is actually surprising that no one has created a politically provocative Denial of Service attack with a clever visual element. Such an attack, especially if it could be played in video on the news, would get a huge amount of press.</p>
<p>Escort services and furries in SL are  a huge portion of its economy - something that doesn&#8217;t get any attention at all in the mainstream press.
</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>by: Cael</title>
		<link>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2006/12/01/is-second-life-sustainable/#comment-3101</link>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Dec 2006 17:52:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2006/12/01/is-second-life-sustainable/#comment-3101</guid>
					<description>A few metrics checks against both over the span of one hour reveal that SL uses on average 4000% more bandwidth than WoW.

Hope this helps.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A few metrics checks against both over the span of one hour reveal that SL uses on average 4000% more bandwidth than WoW.</p>
<p>Hope this helps.
</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>by: Matt</title>
		<link>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2006/12/01/is-second-life-sustainable/#comment-3088</link>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Dec 2006 02:15:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2006/12/01/is-second-life-sustainable/#comment-3088</guid>
					<description>I'm not positive, but I'd be surprised to find out that WoW requires more bandwidth than SL. In WoW, most data is stored client-side. In SL, that data is streamed real-time, which is one big reason why SL is able to allow for such  extensive free-form building.

Also, while there are certainly thousands of farmers in China, simple laws of supply and demand dictate that they cannot make up a major portion of the 7 figure Chinese WoW-playing population. At most, 5-10%, and even that seems on the high side to me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not positive, but I&#8217;d be surprised to find out that WoW requires more bandwidth than SL. In WoW, most data is stored client-side. In SL, that data is streamed real-time, which is one big reason why SL is able to allow for such  extensive free-form building.</p>
<p>Also, while there are certainly thousands of farmers in China, simple laws of supply and demand dictate that they cannot make up a major portion of the 7 figure Chinese WoW-playing population. At most, 5-10%, and even that seems on the high side to me.
</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>by: Taran Rampersad (SL: Nobody Fugazi)</title>
		<link>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2006/12/01/is-second-life-sustainable/#comment-3087</link>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Dec 2006 02:03:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2006/12/01/is-second-life-sustainable/#comment-3087</guid>
					<description>Yes, but then I believe that WoW also requires more bandwidth than SL. And while the Chinese userbase of WoW is large, a lot of that can be said to be simple business (farming).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, but then I believe that WoW also requires more bandwidth than SL. And while the Chinese userbase of WoW is large, a lot of that can be said to be simple business (farming).
</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
</channel>
</rss>
