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	<title>Comments on: World of Warcraft selling more virtual items</title>
	<link>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2006/10/30/world-of-warcraft-selling-more-virtual-items/</link>
	<description>A blog on virtual worlds, games, and digital content, from Matt Mihaly</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 09:08:55 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: Ronald Watts</title>
		<link>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2006/10/30/world-of-warcraft-selling-more-virtual-items/#comment-2488</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Nov 2006 18:01:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2006/10/30/world-of-warcraft-selling-more-virtual-items/#comment-2488</guid>
					<description>Ultima Online lets you buy an advanced character with higher skills, and lets you transfer characters between shards. It also offered and offers special items when you bought the 7th and 8th aniversary editions of the game.
I stopped playing UO a while ago, but I sometimes keep up on the news. Not sure if those count, though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ultima Online lets you buy an advanced character with higher skills, and lets you transfer characters between shards. It also offered and offers special items when you bought the 7th and 8th aniversary editions of the game.<br />
I stopped playing UO a while ago, but I sometimes keep up on the news. Not sure if those count, though.
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		<title>by: Iruen</title>
		<link>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2006/10/30/world-of-warcraft-selling-more-virtual-items/#comment-2485</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Nov 2006 14:22:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2006/10/30/world-of-warcraft-selling-more-virtual-items/#comment-2485</guid>
					<description>There was quite a noise because some people bought the cards before the points price of the item was disclosed, I guess hoping to be the first ones to get the trinkets (of no use whatsoever in game). They were nastily surprised with the price when it came out. Were talking about that here: http://www.gwn.com/articles/article.php/id/816/

Personally I think it's way out of order almost 1000$ for a trinket that isn't worth anything in game besides the cool factor, and not even that because it's buyable (so it just shows up you have a lot of money). But then, the idea is selling the cards game so people play the cards game, not so they have a trinket in WoW.

The panda and the murloc pets, though, those are cute ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There was quite a noise because some people bought the cards before the points price of the item was disclosed, I guess hoping to be the first ones to get the trinkets (of no use whatsoever in game). They were nastily surprised with the price when it came out. Were talking about that here: <a href='http://www.gwn.com/articles/article.php/id/816/' rel='nofollow'>http://www.gwn.com/articles/article.php/id/816/</a></p>
<p>Personally I think it&#8217;s way out of order almost 1000$ for a trinket that isn&#8217;t worth anything in game besides the cool factor, and not even that because it&#8217;s buyable (so it just shows up you have a lot of money). But then, the idea is selling the cards game so people play the cards game, not so they have a trinket in WoW.</p>
<p>The panda and the murloc pets, though, those are cute <img src='http://forge.ironrealms.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' />
</p>
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		<title>by: Ottmar</title>
		<link>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2006/10/30/world-of-warcraft-selling-more-virtual-items/#comment-2421</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Nov 2006 22:37:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2006/10/30/world-of-warcraft-selling-more-virtual-items/#comment-2421</guid>
					<description>I have to say i agree that these UDE exclusives seem virtually unlimited at this time, although they may be discontinued in favor of other bonuses after say a year. (Who knows? Might happen, might not happen. Discontinuing stuff is common practice in the CCG world). Still, there probably will be LOTS more than Collector's Edition pets or Murkys. 

But I still believe this is as close as Blizzard will come to RMTs in WoW (whether for gold or items) in the forseeable future. All &quot;moral&quot; issues they might have with it put aside they would also risk a huge community backlash on the introduction of RMTs, since they have stated time and time again they won't tolerate any sort of this. (And I believe the majority of the WoW community is supportive of this policy)

Finally, to clarify my own view on these: I would not really be bothered if they started selling cosmetic stuff for cash; if the items sold had any impact on gameplay however, I would oppose it, since it would affect my own experience wether i spend the money or not (i.e. game balance is influenced by it, the game WILL get harder for people who refuse to pay the extra cash).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to say i agree that these UDE exclusives seem virtually unlimited at this time, although they may be discontinued in favor of other bonuses after say a year. (Who knows? Might happen, might not happen. Discontinuing stuff is common practice in the CCG world). Still, there probably will be LOTS more than Collector&#8217;s Edition pets or Murkys. </p>
<p>But I still believe this is as close as Blizzard will come to RMTs in WoW (whether for gold or items) in the forseeable future. All &#8220;moral&#8221; issues they might have with it put aside they would also risk a huge community backlash on the introduction of RMTs, since they have stated time and time again they won&#8217;t tolerate any sort of this. (And I believe the majority of the WoW community is supportive of this policy)</p>
<p>Finally, to clarify my own view on these: I would not really be bothered if they started selling cosmetic stuff for cash; if the items sold had any impact on gameplay however, I would oppose it, since it would affect my own experience wether i spend the money or not (i.e. game balance is influenced by it, the game WILL get harder for people who refuse to pay the extra cash).
</p>
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		<title>by: Par Winzell</title>
		<link>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2006/10/30/world-of-warcraft-selling-more-virtual-items/#comment-2413</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Nov 2006 19:41:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2006/10/30/world-of-warcraft-selling-more-virtual-items/#comment-2413</guid>
					<description>I have often suspected that vast amounts of the end-game raiding is paid for in real cash. You can easily spend 100g on repairs and consumables on the evenings you're learning new encounters. Some of the raiders are students who just play three hours extra in the daytime to farm that gold; some people work full time and want to come home and have fun. So aye, dropping $4 for a few hours of fun is no biggie for most people, but $20/night several times a week starts adding up.

So I do think this is one of those quantitative differences that's substantial enough to be considered qualitative. Expensive gold is a luxury good: &quot;I got my paycheck and I want a new mount, I'll just IGE the 900g.&quot; where cheap gold was a commodity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have often suspected that vast amounts of the end-game raiding is paid for in real cash. You can easily spend 100g on repairs and consumables on the evenings you&#8217;re learning new encounters. Some of the raiders are students who just play three hours extra in the daytime to farm that gold; some people work full time and want to come home and have fun. So aye, dropping $4 for a few hours of fun is no biggie for most people, but $20/night several times a week starts adding up.</p>
<p>So I do think this is one of those quantitative differences that&#8217;s substantial enough to be considered qualitative. Expensive gold is a luxury good: &#8220;I got my paycheck and I want a new mount, I&#8217;ll just IGE the 900g.&#8221; where cheap gold was a commodity.
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		<title>by: MMODump.com &#187; World of Warcraft selling more virtual items</title>
		<link>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2006/10/30/world-of-warcraft-selling-more-virtual-items/#comment-2409</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Nov 2006 10:11:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2006/10/30/world-of-warcraft-selling-more-virtual-items/#comment-2409</guid>
					<description>[...] of Warcraft selling more virtual items  World of Warcraft selling more virtual items:&amp;#8220; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] of Warcraft selling more virtual items  World of Warcraft selling more virtual items:&#8220; [&#8230;]
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		<title>by: Matt</title>
		<link>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2006/10/30/world-of-warcraft-selling-more-virtual-items/#comment-2398</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Oct 2006 19:19:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2006/10/30/world-of-warcraft-selling-more-virtual-items/#comment-2398</guid>
					<description>Ottmar:

Thanks for pointing out the error. You are, in fact, correct. I didn't double-check the numbers in the article that brought it to my attention. 

Sure, I understand that you get the UDE points as part of buying the card set, but that doesn't really change anything. One is still able to lay out X dollars and receive Y item in WoW. That sounds like selling items to me. You write that, &quot;If they just started selling items for cash, no other strings attached, it would take away the “special” feel there was to them, as there could be unlimited numbers of those as long as people paid the money for them.&quot;

That's exactly the current situation. The number of the Ogre trinkets, for instance, is based purely on how many people are willing to spend the money to buy enough UDE points.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ottmar:</p>
<p>Thanks for pointing out the error. You are, in fact, correct. I didn&#8217;t double-check the numbers in the article that brought it to my attention. </p>
<p>Sure, I understand that you get the UDE points as part of buying the card set, but that doesn&#8217;t really change anything. One is still able to lay out X dollars and receive Y item in WoW. That sounds like selling items to me. You write that, &#8220;If they just started selling items for cash, no other strings attached, it would take away the “special” feel there was to them, as there could be unlimited numbers of those as long as people paid the money for them.&#8221;</p>
<p>That&#8217;s exactly the current situation. The number of the Ogre trinkets, for instance, is based purely on how many people are willing to spend the money to buy enough UDE points.
</p>
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		<title>by: Brent Michael Krupp</title>
		<link>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2006/10/30/world-of-warcraft-selling-more-virtual-items/#comment-2397</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Oct 2006 19:05:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2006/10/30/world-of-warcraft-selling-more-virtual-items/#comment-2397</guid>
					<description>Blizzard may not be punishing people that buy gold, but they have severely punished the actual gold farmers. Gold prices are sky high on the US servers compared to where they were before Blizzard started their crackdowns. Plus, the endless cheap farmed items that used to be on all the AHs are largely gone. Part of this is banning so many farmers and part is (finally) fixing some of the bugs that farmers were exploiting.

I suppose one could wonder how elastic the demand for gold is, but I'd be surprised if people are really as willing to pay such sky high amounts for gold. Maybe the farmers are still charging market-clearing rates, but I suspect that they're really just trying to avoid selling out entirely and are making less money than before. Even if their profits are unchanged, they are dumping far less gold into the game economies and that's definitely a good thing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Blizzard may not be punishing people that buy gold, but they have severely punished the actual gold farmers. Gold prices are sky high on the US servers compared to where they were before Blizzard started their crackdowns. Plus, the endless cheap farmed items that used to be on all the AHs are largely gone. Part of this is banning so many farmers and part is (finally) fixing some of the bugs that farmers were exploiting.</p>
<p>I suppose one could wonder how elastic the demand for gold is, but I&#8217;d be surprised if people are really as willing to pay such sky high amounts for gold. Maybe the farmers are still charging market-clearing rates, but I suspect that they&#8217;re really just trying to avoid selling out entirely and are making less money than before. Even if their profits are unchanged, they are dumping far less gold into the game economies and that&#8217;s definitely a good thing.
</p>
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		<title>by: Ottmar</title>
		<link>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2006/10/30/world-of-warcraft-selling-more-virtual-items/#comment-2387</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Oct 2006 08:19:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2006/10/30/world-of-warcraft-selling-more-virtual-items/#comment-2387</guid>
					<description>I think your view on this issue is a little wrong. The whole thing is less of a selling of virtual items as it is a cross-promotion for the card game. Also, one of the points you make is not entirely correct.

The card game is not done by Blizzard but has been licensed to Upper Deck Entertainment, makers of the Yu-Gi-Oh CCG and the &quot;Vs. System&quot; (for Marvel and DC Comics CCGs). The WoW CCG is mostly based on this Vs. System. (Also your calculations are way off, the Ogre trinket amounts to about $980 worth of product bought from Upper Deck itself in it's online store.)

Back to my original point, I think the whole issue developed by UDE asking for a way to tie the CCG closer to the online game, giving the MMO players additional incentive to pick up the card game. Blizzard and UDE came to the agreement to offer exclusive, cosmetic in-game items to CCG players, much like the Collector's Edition pets you mentioned.

I don't see Blizzard selling items directly to players in the near future, since so far they seem to see these items as a sort of reward for players with a lot of commitment to the game (i.e. going to BlizzCon to get Murky, buying the CE instead of a normal one). If they just started selling items for cash, no other strings attached, it would take away the &quot;special&quot; feel there was to them, as there could be unlimited numbers of those as long as people paid the money for them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think your view on this issue is a little wrong. The whole thing is less of a selling of virtual items as it is a cross-promotion for the card game. Also, one of the points you make is not entirely correct.</p>
<p>The card game is not done by Blizzard but has been licensed to Upper Deck Entertainment, makers of the Yu-Gi-Oh CCG and the &#8220;Vs. System&#8221; (for Marvel and DC Comics CCGs). The WoW CCG is mostly based on this Vs. System. (Also your calculations are way off, the Ogre trinket amounts to about $980 worth of product bought from Upper Deck itself in it&#8217;s online store.)</p>
<p>Back to my original point, I think the whole issue developed by UDE asking for a way to tie the CCG closer to the online game, giving the MMO players additional incentive to pick up the card game. Blizzard and UDE came to the agreement to offer exclusive, cosmetic in-game items to CCG players, much like the Collector&#8217;s Edition pets you mentioned.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t see Blizzard selling items directly to players in the near future, since so far they seem to see these items as a sort of reward for players with a lot of commitment to the game (i.e. going to BlizzCon to get Murky, buying the CE instead of a normal one). If they just started selling items for cash, no other strings attached, it would take away the &#8220;special&#8221; feel there was to them, as there could be unlimited numbers of those as long as people paid the money for them.
</p>
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		<title>by: blachawk</title>
		<link>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2006/10/30/world-of-warcraft-selling-more-virtual-items/#comment-2366</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Oct 2006 22:00:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2006/10/30/world-of-warcraft-selling-more-virtual-items/#comment-2366</guid>
					<description>Nah it's pretty expensive.  $20 / 100gold seems to be the prevailing rate at the moment.  With dedicated farming, I can make about 30-50 gold an hour.  I'm not poor, but I don't value my leisure time at $10 an hour.  Now, when gold hit the all time low of $4 / 100gold I bought an armload.  I got so much in fact that I still have some in reserve a year later.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nah it&#8217;s pretty expensive.  $20 / 100gold seems to be the prevailing rate at the moment.  With dedicated farming, I can make about 30-50 gold an hour.  I&#8217;m not poor, but I don&#8217;t value my leisure time at $10 an hour.  Now, when gold hit the all time low of $4 / 100gold I bought an armload.  I got so much in fact that I still have some in reserve a year later.
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		<title>by: Hermes</title>
		<link>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2006/10/30/world-of-warcraft-selling-more-virtual-items/#comment-2365</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Oct 2006 21:56:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://forge.ironrealms.com/2006/10/30/world-of-warcraft-selling-more-virtual-items/#comment-2365</guid>
					<description>Personally, I always wanted to hit the high-level game of WoW so I could participate more effectively in the Battlegrounds and whatnot, but after a month or so, I was level 30 and had been trapped in the 'generic haunted forest' area for more time than I would have liked. So I quit. Heh.

I know I myself would love to see WoW and other such games adopt a 'Credit/Doubloon' style system for in-game gold transfers (that is, in-game trinkets/subscription time/advancement can be purchased with a secondary 'hard' currency that is fully exchangeable with other players for primary 'soft' currency, but you already knew that) so that the only real benefit gold farmers could snag is free subscription time, but I'm at a complete loss as to how to cobble that into a system that already has a robust playerbase happily paying their subscription fees normally every month; 1.5M people paying $15 a month isn't really something that should be frivolously screwed around with. Heh.

As an aside, is there any confirmation yet of any players who've actually acquired an Ogre trinket?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Personally, I always wanted to hit the high-level game of WoW so I could participate more effectively in the Battlegrounds and whatnot, but after a month or so, I was level 30 and had been trapped in the &#8216;generic haunted forest&#8217; area for more time than I would have liked. So I quit. Heh.</p>
<p>I know I myself would love to see WoW and other such games adopt a &#8216;Credit/Doubloon&#8217; style system for in-game gold transfers (that is, in-game trinkets/subscription time/advancement can be purchased with a secondary &#8216;hard&#8217; currency that is fully exchangeable with other players for primary &#8217;soft&#8217; currency, but you already knew that) so that the only real benefit gold farmers could snag is free subscription time, but I&#8217;m at a complete loss as to how to cobble that into a system that already has a robust playerbase happily paying their subscription fees normally every month; 1.5M people paying $15 a month isn&#8217;t really something that should be frivolously screwed around with. Heh.</p>
<p>As an aside, is there any confirmation yet of any players who&#8217;ve actually acquired an Ogre trinket?
</p>
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