There’s a long-standing debate within the virtual world developer/fan community over whether players own (in a legal sense) anything in a virtual world. I fall strongly on the “the players do not own anything” for sheer practicality reasons. What would ownership over a virtual sword actually mean? A developer could give you the binary 1s and 0s that make up the data structure that represents the sword, but you couldn’t do anything with it. It’d be utterly and completely valueless unless you enjoy staring at some binary code that is meaningless outside of the context of the game the sword came from.
There’s a thread on Terranova currently about a lawsuit against Linden Labs and I wanted to respond to a post Randy Maslow made. I’ll quote the relevant bit below. Disclosure: Randy Maslow is either the current or former (can’t tell) Senior VP and General Counsel for IGE, the largest operator in the grey-market for gold and items in the big MMORPGs, so he is (like I am) hardly an unbiased party. The legality of what users do with IGE’s service depends on the idea that users own in-game property and that they’re free to ignore the Terms of Service they agree to when signing up for a game.
Randy writes:
It seems to me that courts can find minimum protectable interests in virtual assets on the part of the account holder and impose reasonable restrictions on arbitrary and excessive interference with such assets on the part of publishers without stifling the economic incentives of publishers to meet the demand for MMOGs.
That seems like a very reasonable, lawyerly thing to say, doesn’t it? But let’s look at a series of hypotheticals that involve a player “buying” a virtual widget in a situation where the player supposedly, legally “owns” the item, and you tell me how a court could possibly sort these kinds of issues out without simply killing off gamey MMORPGs (since Randy wants to claim that players own things even if the Terms of Service say they don’t, and even if the players haven’t paid for them), which I’m certain won’t happen?
Case #1
Game is wildly unpopular and is losing the company bucketloads of money. Company shuts the game down, basically cutting off access to the virtual widget.
Case #2
The game supports the ability for players to steal things from each other, including these widgets. Someone uses a bug in the game code (written by the company) to steal the widget from the widget owner.
Case #3
The game supports PvP and corpse looting, and the widget is taken this way from the purchaser (ie using capabilites intentionally built into the service by the developers).
Case #4
Company provides a ‘dispose of item’ command, which permanently destroys an item, but which does not require confirmation. Player accidentally destroys his widget this way.
Case #5
Company seizes the widget because player pissed someone at the Company off.
Case #6
Company seizes the widget because player violated the Terms of Service, prohibiting foul language.
Case #7
Game supports stealing, and company urges Player B to steal the widget from Player A.
Case #8
Widget is functional, and company nerfs that function because it miscalculated how powerful the item would be.
Case #9
Power of the widget is inversely proportional to the number of people who own it. Company drops price of item, encouraging more people to buy, and thus causing it to have less utility to previous purchasers.
Beyond these cases, think about expanding each of them to include ALL items “acquired” (whatever that means in a digital environment) by players through the course of play. Think about the near-infinite mutations and variations of game rules by which items might be forcibly transferred from one character to another, or destroyed. Are courts really going to get into the business of judging what is and what isn’t a “fair” way to lose an item in a game? I’m not a lawyer, but I sure doubt it.
Now, having said that, worlds like Second Life and Entropia Universe could be carved out as exceptions since they explicitly promote their services as ways to make money. Unlike our games, for instance, where you must explicitly deny that you’re making an investment of any sort when you purchase credits from us, Second Life and Entropia Universe promote the idea that you can make money via their service. Some might argue, and I’d give some credit to those arguments, that when Second Life and Entropia Universe promote their services as ways to make money, it’s entirely reasonable to regulate them as banks and force them to treat player purchases as investments.
Of course, while that seems reasonable at first, one quickly realizes that items have some sort of resale value whether you can officially cash out or not. Hundreds of millions of dollars of World of Warcraft gold have been traded despite Blizzard’s prohibition and stomping on tens of thousands of supposed violators.
There’s no telling what kinds of out-of-touch decisions a court might make, of course, but until someone can define what it would actually mean to actually own something in a virtual world, there’s little point in even discussing it further. If Second Life shut down tomorrow, does ownership mean that each user just gets a print out of 1s and 0s? Probably not, as that is utterly meaningless. But what could ownership lead to in that case? Would Linden Labs be required to open source their software so people could run emulators? What if, as is the case with Linden, the technology requirements are so steep as to be impractical for these object/land “owners” to run their own emulators. And what about the fact that the service the developer provides is a key part of the value, and some hobbyist running an emulator likely causes the widget to have less value?
Regardless of what happens, I’d be quite wary of considering any money spent in virtual worlds as an investment. Do it because it’s fun. Do it as a past-time, as a hobby. But don’t do it as an investment, because at the end of the day, the developer completely controls the context that gives the virtual items 100% of their value. The physical equivalent might be something like owning an electric sewing machine but having no electricity. Even that’s not a perfect equivalent, as physical items have a context that exceeds their general purpose. You could throw a sewing machine at someone or something, for instance. You can’t do -anything- with the substance that makes up a virtual item, because it’s not actually a separate thing. It is part and parcel of a service (not a product) and not a separate ‘item.’
This must sound awfully cynical and tyrannical considering we sell credits to players, but I want to emphasize that all this means it that you, the player, shouldn’t put money into a virtual world unless you can afford to permanently part with it and are willing to trust that the virtual world operator is responsible and ethical. Luckily, it is completely in the operators best interest to generate and maintain that trust with users. There is absolutely nothing to be gained long-term by setting one expectation for how virtual items will be treated in your world and treating them in a different manner. Just be up front with your customers.
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October 13th, 2006 at 2:28 am
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October 12th, 2006 at 9:56 pm
Jeremy Saunders
I am amazed that people are even arguing for item ownership. How could a game that has run past its day ever close? 50 years from now, WoW will still be running their servers for fear of being sued by people demanding payment for items and countless hours spent mindlessly grinding.
October 12th, 2006 at 10:34 pm
Marc Watson/Richter Carthan
People treating in-game items as investments would start the virtual ball rolling into an area that we don’t want, and I think that Jeremy is right, that if game companies can have legal action taken against them, the only solution is to never close the game, and ultimately, it’s far too costly to keep the game open past its time, and the company loses money.
It’s just like how if you get on an insurance policy, and your rates and benefits are secure. You know what you have, you’re comfortable with that fact, and people are going to sue their ass off if they mess with it. So the company keeps the policy open, until 10 years down the line, you’ve still got the same policy, and the company can never change it because of legal action . Same with some loans/banks/interest rates/etc.
I know that if I woke up tomorrow, and Lusternia was closed, I’d be very unhappy that my money had gone to waste. But no one actually “took it away from me”, because it never existed. We as players attach value to such items, and yet they have no real worth, unless somehow you can measure how much space they’re using on a server, and convert that into how much it’s costing. In which case, I have some pennies in my couch, just in case I ever need to recover that cost.
October 13th, 2006 at 7:48 am
Brask Mumei
I am always confused by these ownership debates. I think the different parties are talking about different things, thus both halves staring confusedly into space.
First, as a player, I am in favour of player “ownership” of game creation. Does this mean I want a stream of ones and zeros? No. Does it mean I want the company to be forced to maintain the “value” of those ones and zeros? No. Most of your objections to player ownership thus slide past my position.
The “ownership” can be divided into two categories.
The first category is ownership of creative input into the game. My common example of this is if I were to write a book inside the game. While it would be expected that said book could be destroyed, copied, or spindled within the game (my adding it to the game world is an implicit license for that), I object to the claim that I don’t own the text of the resulting book. I believe I should be allowed to publish the text of the book on my webpage without permission of the game operators. This seems so obvious to me that I wonder that I have to state it, but, when Second Life clarified their TOS to make this situation clear, people started to talk about the sky falling. The key ownership assertion here is that any creative work I contribute to the game has a *non-exclusive* license to the game world. I retain “ownership” of my chat logs, character design, written books, painted pictures, in the exterior world. And, by ownership, I mean merely that I can do whatever I wish with them without asking permission of the game world. (Needless to say, some things are derivitive also of the gameworld, such as screenshots or machinima. The status of such derivitive works is much more complicated and I wouldn’t claim to “own” them.)
The second category is ownership of the virtual swords of the game. This is often conflated with the first category. My book example is often replied to by claiming that the user didn’t contribute anything to the sword design. Which leaves me scratching my head as I hadn’t made that claim. The “ownership” of a sword is much weaker than that of the text of a book that I wrote. Clearly, I don’t own the image of the sword rendered to the screen, nor do I own the geometry of the sword. Likewise, I don’t own the bits on the server that represent my character’s ownership of the sword. (Even if I did, it is trivial to extract my own copy of that. I write down on a piece of paper: “Brask owns the Uber Sword” and I have made a copy of the meaning of those bits. So, maybe I am saying I own those bits, in the sense that I can record my character’s inventory outside the gameworld?) So, having said what my sense of entitlement isn’t, what *is* it?
When a character in the game “owns” something, I feel I “own” it in a similar sense. If the character has the right to destroy it, I feel I have the right to destroy it. If the character has the right to give it away for arbitrary reasons, I feel I have a similar right. Note this isn’t a roleplaying argument, it is quite the opposite. It relies on the avatar and the player being equivalent. This is where EULAs banning item sales fall flat for me. It’s a very artifical feeling restraint on the character’s “ownership”, and hence my “ownership”, of the item. I guess my point is that real world sales don’t rely on the strong ownership argument that is often brought up. They rely on the *avatar*s ownership and merely what that entails. This is very close to the “the game lets me do it and hence it is okay” argument used for exploits. And, I guess, it shouldn’t be surprising that it is close. (As an irrelevant aside, it’s somewhat odd that those who exploit the laws of physics in the real world are lauded as geniuses, while those exploit the laws of physics in game worlds are shunned and derided.)
October 13th, 2006 at 8:19 am
Par Winzell
I don’t have the familiarity with the business or even the intellectual clout to really argue this with y’all. And yet it seems to me most of the opinions I see here are indistinguishable from those held by pioneers throughout history. Whenever there is a new frontier, even without the protection of an authority framework in place, intangible and ephemeral assets are every bit as coveted as the concrete ones. People will still invest in, or kill for, even the vaguest claims of ownership.
And invariably, as more and more people’s economic fortunes become emeshed in the area, jurisdiction is expanded, issues are sorted out, and the courts begin turning loose notions into common law. That’s what they do, and it’s always messy at first. A few generations down the line, the last cowboy is buried and civilization is taken for granted.
I’m not saying we’re going to see ownership of The Sword of a Thousand Truths seriously argued in court. But I think we’re not in such a completely new place either.
October 13th, 2006 at 10:38 am
Matt
Brask:
Ownership is a legal status though, and only legal entities can own something. An avatar can’t own something as an avatar isn’t an entity in which ownership can reside. It’s like saying your car owns something. YOU might own something in the car, but your car certainly doesn’t.
Further, if you feel you own the virtual sword that you adventured for, have a look at those cases I posited. What if someone uses a bug to PvP you and take it from you? What if I, the developer, introduce the capability for that to happen AFTER you’ve acquired the sword? What if the sword is too powerful and needs nerfing?
–matt
October 16th, 2006 at 4:57 am
Andrew Crystall
“An avatar can’t own something as an avatar isn’t an entity in which ownership can reside.”
In Europe, the Avatar is legally an extension of your own persona. This has been tested multiple times. Yes, usually in that you can be sued *directly* using an online alias, but the precidents are quite clear.
Matt, that you have rights to property does not mean that you have the right not to lose that property. You raise a lot of null issues - people are accepting your terms and conditions to come and play on your servers. The only places where it DOES have an issue, per my legal advisor, are RMT and reimbursements for hacks and exploits.
Those areas, well, he says (and I agree with the reasoning) that ownership of items means you cannot stop people trading them, and if items are taken in ways against your ToS they must be returned.
MMO Games are NOT unique snowflakes, they are a subscription service like any other, and the caselaw for this IS established.
You just need to establish, from the start, clear things like “We may cease this service at any time with three months notice, and at such time any and all items ou own on our servers will be deleted, with no recourse to you”.
“There’s no telling what kinds of out-of-touch decisions a court might make”
I’m afraid from my POV, you’re the one out of touch. Sticking your head in the sand and saying “not me, not me” dosn’t work. Quite simply, in Asia there allready HAVE been court rulings which have weakened operators controls, because they did not plan properly. Time to revise those EULA’s, so they will work even IF your argument fails.
Revising them afterwards…is legally far more problematic. “Judge, they changed them on sour grapes and are still trying to deny me my rightful…”
October 16th, 2006 at 9:31 am
Matt
Andrew wrote:
In Europe, the Avatar is legally an extension of your own persona. This has been tested multiple times. Yes, usually in that you can be sued *directly* using an online alias, but the precidents are quite clear.
I am not aware of any case where an avatar in a virtual world has been held to be an entity capable of legal ownership equivalent to a person or a corporation/partnership by any country in Europe. Could you please provide references?
Those areas, well, he says (and I agree with the reasoning) that ownership of items means you cannot stop people trading them, and if items are taken in ways against your ToS they must be returned.
Except that players don’t own the items, as per the ToS. Our legal counsel strongly disagrees with yours, I might add.
MMO Games are NOT unique snowflakes, they are a subscription service like any other, and the caselaw for this IS established.
What? Some of them are subscription services, but the only subscription-based game mentioned in this blog post is World of Warcraft. None of our games are subscription services.
You’re far from correct that caselaw is established here. There is no significant case law relating to this issue in virtual worlds in the US, at least.
You just need to establish, from the start, clear things like “We may cease this service at any time with three months notice, and at such time any and all items ou own on our servers will be deleted, with no recourse to you”.
I am not sure you’re understanding what the issue is here. Most Terms of Service for MMORPGs state exactly that, effectively. The issue is whether that violates a user’s rights.
–matt
October 16th, 2006 at 9:44 am
Andrew Crystall
Matt, you’re missing the point with the Avatar comment. Your online actions are simply are not legally seperable from *you* in European law. Call it an avatar, a prescence, whatever.
And you claim that the players don’t own the items, yes. This is not something which has been tested for a MMO, but again: If I write a document in an online colaberative tool, there are certain rights which I cannot sign away under European law - its an emerging area, but it currently certainly looks like more than moral rights.
I’m trying to remember the Asian country which ruled on this in favour of the players… hm…
And your ToS simply says “no”. There’s no backup, no failsafes. If that clause is set aside, what second string clause do you have to hand? Incidentally, you have a FAR stronger case against IGE than individual users here….
(Company vs individual actions)
I’ll see if I can get some caselaw later on.
October 16th, 2006 at 10:00 am
Matt
Andrew wrote:
Matt, you’re missing the point with the Avatar comment. Your online actions are simply are not legally seperable from *you* in European law. Call it an avatar, a prescence, whatever.
Oh, I totally agree with that. I was just calling into the question the idea that an avatar can own anything.
And you claim that the players don’t own the items, yes. This is not something which has been tested for a MMO, but again: If I write a document in an online colaberative tool, there are certain rights which I cannot sign away under European law - its an emerging area, but it currently certainly looks like more than moral rights.
Right, it’s untested. In the absence of legal enforcement, possession/control is basically reality though, and right now, that possession and control rests ultimately with developers. European IP law does differ in that significant way from American, and we’ll see what happens. I’m not particularly worried though.
And your ToS simply says “no”. There’s no backup, no failsafes. If that clause is set aside, what second string clause do you have to hand? Incidentally, you have a FAR stronger case against IGE than individual users here….
Actually, my ToS claims both ownership and has the user grant us a non-exclusive, perpetual license, so there is a backup.
I don’t think I have any case against IGE, because IGE isn’t involved in our business. The business model we operate pretty much shuts down ‘illicit’ RMT by its nature. (I also don’t think anyone has much of a case against IGE. Blizzard has plenty of money to sue IGE, but has never sought to, at least to the extent of my knowledge. IGE claims, and I have reason to believe, that they do not violate any Terms of Service, so it’s hard to see what actionable harm they’re causing.)
–matt
October 16th, 2006 at 10:30 am
Brask Mumei
I’m afraid you lose me when you specify ownership as a legal term. As a player, I don’t care about the legal technicalities. Realistically, I know I’m never going to sue the game operator, so it really doesn’t matter what the law says. Even if the law granted me infinite rights, I’d still just leave in anger than go through the pain of a law suit. Likewise, even if the law explicitly stated you were allowed to torment players arbitrarily, I wouldn’t stick around a game which engaged in those actions.
This is why these discussions never go anywhere. I try to explain in detail my motivation for feeling entitlement for the in-game items, and what I consider fair dealing to be. Responding by telling me that those feelings aren’t respected by law is irrevevant.
Now, as for those cases…
Case 1: Doesn’t interfere with my ownership. The inherent possibility of the world ending is known from day 1.
Case 2: Someone breaking into my house and stealing my stereo doesn’t stop me from owning the stereo. Nor are the Police liable for recovery of the stereo, or even equivalent value. In the MMORPG case, at most,I can hope the company will work to fix the bug & punish the wrongdoers.
Case 3: We are playing keepsies in marbles. I’ve consented to losing my item in this way. (Indeed, this is an example of *strengthing* my sense of item ownership - I have the ability to chose to risk its loss.)
Case 4: Part of ownership is the responsibility to not destroy it when I don’t want to destroy it.
Case 5: This violates my sense of ownership.
Case 6: Reasonable, provided that is the standard operating procedure for such violations. If it were a peculiar punishment particularly for me, I may object.
Case 7: Depends on the role of the admin when it was doing the urging. In any case, the offense is independent of the fact an item is being stolen. Having the admins encourage player B to dislike me isn’t acceptable if they are in their neutral admin roles.
Case 8: Laws of physics change. Stock can become valueless overnight. It’s not like no one ever nerfed anything before.
Case 9: See Case 8.
Most of these are entirely irrelevant to the sense of ownership that I talked about.
October 16th, 2006 at 10:51 am
Matt
Brask, commenting on one specific thing, and then the post as a whole. You wrote:
Laws of physics change. Stock can become valueless overnight. It’s not like no one ever nerfed anything before.
I’m not sure what you mean. The laws of physics in the physical world do not change. And when a company so much as fails to report a factor that causes the company’s stock to fall, said company often gets sued.
As to your general sense of moral ownership, I don’t actually recognize that as ownership in the technical sense, but I’d agree that it really doesn’t matter whether it is or not, because you can’t argue with someone’s feelings about something.
If you want to feel that you have ownership over virtual goods, I certainly have no objection. If you are my player, either you find the way we treat the game and the objects within it vis a vis you acceptable or you don’t, and we lose a customer. Caveat Emptor is probably a little harsher than I would stand behind, but the idea that the ownership of your item basically springs from and resides in your head is fine with me. I, as a developer, am then free to operate in the way I believe is best for the game, and you’re free to leave if you don’t like it. It’s in my interest to run things in such a way as to keep as many customers as I can happy, but I’m not held liable if I can’t.
–matt
October 17th, 2006 at 6:03 am
Andrew Crystall
Matt,
My home internet access has gone the way of the dodo right now, so I can only post from work. So that legal research will have to wait a little… (Hi NTL! Bad ISP! *thwack*)
In any case, if I write something in your game, am European, and you operate in Europe at the VERY least I have moral rights* over it. If this extends more broadly, and to other rights, remains to be seen.
(*more or less, the right to be credited with the creation, and the right NOT to be associated with something I didn’t actually write as the author)
As for IGE… you can certainly argue at the very least that anything in your game is a derivative work, and IGE has no right to alter or use your derivative works without a contractual agreesment with you.
I agree, in the end, that there are better methods than chasing the wind, though, which is what “no” amounts to. Either a different revenue method, as you follow, or Eve’s allowing the selling of time codes (printing gametime, which is EXACTLY what a subscription MMO sells, after all) for in-game currency by the players - it’s win/win. (Working player gets his currency, younger player gets to pay for “free”, there’s no inflation, the deals can be monitored and it demonstably crushes the ebay market value for your game’s currency)
October 17th, 2006 at 8:37 am
Brask Mumei
I certainly agree that the absolute laws of physics remain unchanged. However, what I meant by the “Laws of physics change” is that the practical day-to-day laws that I deal with do change. For example, the number of Gb that can be stored on a hard drive change from year to year. My old 120 Mb hard drives are paperweights now. Cars are now able to drive longer with cleaner emissions than they could before. On the other hand, certain refrigerants such as Freon are no longer available.
I think you now understand my position, however. “liability” isn’t limitted to just suing people in courts. Trodding on players sense of entitlement makes you liable to them leaving the game and spreading bad word of mouth about you. This is why I think that, despite the actual legalities of ownership, it is probably a good idea for operators to act as if there was ownership.
October 17th, 2006 at 10:25 am
Matt
Brask wrote:
This is why I think that, despite the actual legalities of ownership, it is probably a good idea for operators to act as if there was ownership.
Yep, I completely agree, provided it doesn’t go to the point of assuring players they do have ownership when they don’t. I think Linden is walking a pretty dangerous and possibly outright deceitful line of PR when its CEO tells people that users own their property, but then fails to treat the property as if it was actually owned by players.
–matt
October 18th, 2006 at 3:57 am
PlayNoEvil
Matt -
Thanks for this article. It kickstarted some ideas I have been mulling over:
http://www.playnoevil.com/serendipity/index.php?/archives/877-Virtual-Theft-No,-Virtual-Property-No,-RMT-Maybe.html
Steve
October 18th, 2006 at 4:37 am
Andrew Crystall
Sorry PlayNoEvil, but that’s the classic recital of flawed views. That untested EULA provisions are the law of the land, that only a few people engage in RMT and thus you can afford to chase the buyers, that RMT has much at all to do with the success or failure of a games economy (UO kinda works, and allows RMT. Eve works to a great degree (except for the cluster issue, and that can be traced to a specific game mechanism) and allows the sale of gametime for in-game cash, AC failed miserable, and disallowed RMT), etc.
Also, the line about online gambling is a scare story…
October 18th, 2006 at 8:45 am
Matt
Hi Steve,
Thanks for pointing out the article. Just wanted to comment on one thing from it:
One of the things that online games often do badly is actually spell out the rules of the game. Players have an expectation of reasonable stability in the rules of the game so that they can make tactical and strategic choices in the game. Hence the visceral reaction to “nerfing”.
One of the rules of the game has to be, by necessity, that the developer can change other rules whenever it deems it necessary for the health of the world. There’s just no way around this, I would suggest, without crippling the ability of a game operator to run a decent service.
October 18th, 2006 at 8:06 pm
PlayNoEvil
Matt -
I don’t object to changing the rules, simply documenting them.
Is that your only disagreement
?
Steve
October 18th, 2006 at 8:10 pm
Matt
But those rules may very simply be, “Don’t be a jerk.” Jerkdom is quite subjective.
–matt
October 20th, 2006 at 1:54 pm
Andrew Crystall
And - generally - the more subjective a rule, the more likely it is to be struck down in court. At the very least, you can use the defence of it being normal by the standards of the players of MMORPG’s.
Which is, of course, why generally there’s a long list of rules AND a clause at the end “plus we can ban you at any time if we wish”, to be used only if none of the rules apply…
November 16th, 2007 at 8:32 am
Kkidd
What about a company such as NetDragon. It sells virtual money for real money. It does not have a subscription fee. It is a free to play, pay to win gaming design(i.e. ConquerOnline) You pay for in-game currency. If the game fails do you not have a right to a refund?
November 29th, 2007 at 12:58 am
cheak6
along with Quests and Interaction form the three fundamental pillars of RuneScape. Skills in RuneScape represent the ability of gamers to do any activity or genre of activities. And as expected, the level of any skill attained is dependent on the amount of effort and practice that is put in. Skill levels are one of the major factors that determine the status enjoyed by any gamer in the realm of RuneScape. The better the level of combat skills, the bigger are the bounties earned by Pking as well as slaying monsters. Similarly, better extraction skills let a gamer manufacture more high priced items that can fetch higher amount of gps in the RuneScape market.
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