Via PlayNoEvil comes an editorial on MMORPG.com that makes me want to cry a little bit. It’s about factions and what the editor thinks could be changed to be better. He writes, for instance:
First should be how one is able to join a faction. Let fellow players decide who can join their faction. More importantly, if a group of players is being dishonorable, allow the players the ability to exile them from their own faction. Have a certain election system implemented where certain leaders from each faction form a council where everything is discussed on the grand scale. This would create a truly faction friendly gaming system, where all members of the faction really have to work together in order to succeed. If one leader abuses his power in removing people that should not be removed, there is always the election system to remove them from that council, so someone better can lead.
Wow. I think Avalon did that first in 1990. I know our games have been doing it since 1997, though in both cases factions are called cities. I understand that text MMORPGs/MUDs are not for everyone, but I sometimes feel like reading sites focused on graphical MMORPGs is remarkably like reading text MUD newsgroups in 1991. I’ve given up expecting that designers and commentators might actually try out text MUDs if they haven’t previously, and check out what’s happened/happening in them, but that’s kind of a shame, because frankly, very little happens in the graphical MMORPG world that hasn’t previously been done in text. There are many, many mistakes to learn from instead of making them for yourself.
For example, not only is the kind of system the MMORPG.com editor talks about above well-explored, but he could discover where implementing that kind of system ultimately leads. How will players abuse it? How did designers successfully counter that abuse? What enhancements proved popular and useful?
Oh well. I used to spend a fair amount of time on places like mud-dev trying to explain to novice virtual world developers why and what they need to pay attention to in terms of the history of virtual worlds (which is largely writ by text MUDs in terms of innovations), but I have mainly given up doing anything more than occasionally irritating graphical-only folk by pointing out how their “innovative” feature was done 10 years ago in text, with greater depth, if likely less polish.
Of course, at the end of the day, it’s not whether something has been done or not that matters to the end consumer, who cares only about the value of the product he or she is using. It’s only of value to a developer who wants to learn from past mistakes and successes. There are way too many MMO developers who don’t fit that category, but should. (Yes, I realize MMORPG.com isn’t a developer.)
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July 24th, 2006 at 8:48 pm
Joseph Monk
Look at it this way, since you’ve mentioned a few times that you are doing a graphical game, you’ve got an edge the bigger companies don’t have. You know more about the market than they do at this point.
I too enjoy people who completely ignore history, but to be fair there’s a large number of those in the text MUD community that ignore their own history as well.
A friend of mine works for Blizzard, at his birthday party I met with a lot of the Korean programmers on WoW. One of them that I spoke with told me how he started with DIKU MUDs and still plays them. He, like many of us, still prefers the depth a text game offers that those graphical ones can’t/don’t. If they had more people like that, in higher positions, the graphical games might be a lot more interesting and less of the same old grind.
July 24th, 2006 at 10:30 pm
Abalieno
More than that it would be interesting to see if some systems are viable with thousands of players instead of a few hundreds.
You design a game for a target, not in absolute.
July 24th, 2006 at 10:39 pm
Matt
That’s quite true, Abalieno. Scaling problems are always an issue. I do see an issue with many text MUD systems scaling, but the fundamental way that some text MUDs deal with the issue the MMORPG.com author talked about scales, or so I’m inclined to believe. It started at about 50 users simultaneous and works now at about 9-10 times that. I don’t think going up another 5 or 6 times is going to change it that much, though of course, I don’t know for sure.
It seems like a good place to start at least, doesn’t it?
July 25th, 2006 at 2:39 am
Psychochild
People will always have a terrible memory for history. It’s simply not important, you see, because anything with less than 6 million subscribers simply doesn’t matter!
Dr. Bartle once made a comment on Terra Nova that they were rehashing discussions from the MUD-Dev list from the mid 90’s. This did not amuse the people who like to think they’re breaking new ground, so they poked a bit of fun at him. But, you’ll continue to see people discover what was obvious a decade ago and treat it like something amazing.
I fully expect that in a few years people will act like WoW invented the online game medium. Mark my words.
July 25th, 2006 at 6:00 am
PlayNoEvil
Of course it is also humorous that the computer games industry acts like there weren’t games before 1973 or something.
There is a tremendous amount online games could still learn from the traditional, board, card, and dice games of the world.
July 25th, 2006 at 9:31 am
Matt
Very good point, Mr. Evil. The game mechanics of traditional games are often laser-focused and have iterated to near-perfection over a far longer period of time than video games.
July 25th, 2006 at 9:48 am
Sisca
While I’d really like to see a system like that implemented in a graphical game I’m begining to think that features that rely on player-to-player communication just won’t work in graphical MMO’s. Actually, let me correct that, they won’t work in graphical MMO’s that are aimed at the “mainstream”.
The system described would fail miserably in a game like WoW because, more and more, the players want their only interaction with other players to be in the form of combat. Heaven forbid they actually have to talk to real people to improve their standing with a faction. Heck, I’ve been in groups in WoW that didn’t speak 10 words in 2 hours and most of those were along the lines of “GTG” or “sec AFK”.
The advantage text based games have is that their only interaction with the players is text so the players of these games are much more comfortable using text to, I don’t know, talk to each other. The graphical games primary interaction is visual while the only way they can interact with other players, outside of combat, is still text and they may not be as comfortable with text as they are with graphics.
July 25th, 2006 at 10:33 am
Brent Michael Krupp
Your comments remind me of exactly what my friends and I griped about with respect to computer RPGs back in the 90s. We are all long-time “paper & pencil” role-playing gamers and had seen years of debate and improvement in the realm of RPG systems. Then we’d see all sorts of computer RPGs with all sorts of crappy systems that had long been improved upon in the paper RPG world. It was annoying to think that the computer game designers were apparently completely ignorant of non-computer games and the years of work in that genre.
Sad, but not surprising, that the same thing happens with text vs. graphical MUDs/MMOs.
July 26th, 2006 at 8:51 am
Riashain
Heh, so true, Sisca.
I’m inclined to believe that you require a playerbase with a textual mindset (in terms of gameplay) because that’s where roleplaying actually occurs to even a slight extent.
For the record, I don’t consider “I’m a big bad paladin so Imma go smash things that paladins don’t like” in WoW to be roleplaying
They’ll smash whatever they want if they can. It’s like Rocktamer and the Vertani from Achaea
OOOOOOO SMASH!
Anyways… from my experience, people who haven’t immersed themselves in the kind of setting a textual game offers can’t truly comprehend the value of that setting and the enjoyment you get out of it. Having played in both types of settings (although, my graphical MMORPG immersion is rather low…) I can honestly tell you I prefer the current IRE approach. Here’s to hoping you’ll pull this off with a graphical game, Matt. Achaea’s stolen my life already, I’m willing to let you keep it with another game if it’s good enough
July 26th, 2006 at 10:04 am
Joseph Monk
It will be interesting to see what IRE does with a graphical game, all the luck to you on that one.